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RE: stds-802-16: Published: Development Plan for 802.16.3 Air Int erface Standard

Further to the previous comments - in the words of Jay Klein and other key 
802.16.1 figures, the 16.1 air interface is optimized for :

- connection oriented
- Line of Sight
- Weak Multipath
- Very slow fading
- Very high bit rates
- High Spectrum Efficiency
- etc

The 802.16.3 air interface on the other hand must be optimized for :

- Connectionless services
- Non Line of Sight, with DIY installation and portability very desirable
- Strong / complex Multipath
- Rapid Fading (not always Rician)
- Moderate bit rates with concentration / multiplexing performed in the air for 
hundreds or thousands of users
- Very high spectrum efficiency (>5 bps per Hz payload  - preferably 5-20) and 
full frequency reuse (preferably N=1)
- Different / complex regulatory and coexistence parameters, over several 
bands, bandwidths and countries

Apart from that, I guess they're might be similar. We have to establish the 
functional, MAC and PHY requirements / characteristics and evaluation criteria  
 in their own right, and then evaluate all or part of the 802.16.1 MAC within 
this context, which is what the revised development plan does. Cutting corners 
at the front end will only cause much greater delays and recycling later on. 
This is a far more complex, difficult and different market to address than the 
802.16.1 market segment.

David Trinkwon
e-mail : trinkwon@compuserve.com
Telephone :  UK  (+44) (0) 7802 538315   USA   (+1) 972 345 5226
Fax :                UK (+44) (0) 20 7681 1695   USA   (+1) 602 532 7013

From: 	Chet Shirali[SMTP:cshirali@vyyo.com]
Reply To: 	cshirali@vyyo.com
Sent: 	Tuesday, August 01, 2000 18:50
To: 	'Phil Guillemette'; 'Marianna Goldhammer'; 'Roger B. Marks'; 
stds-802-16@ieee.org; Menashe Shahar (E-mail)
Subject: 	RE: stds-802-16: Published: Development Plan for 802.16.3 Air Int 
erface Standard

I had voiced similar views as Mariana to the reply I had sent to Roger's
mail of last Friday. Unfortunately, it did go to the 802.16 working  group.
The Email however, bounced back. I am sending it all over again.

I agree with Rogers's that the plan is slow. We did not have enough time at
the plenary meeting in San Diego. Part of the group was busy in dealing with
Cisco/ISTO announcement.

As regards the MAC for 802.16.3 (sub 11 GHz), I had told Roger and also
voiced my opinion in the 802.16.3 San Diego that there are likely to be many
commonalities between the 802.16.1 (LMDS) MAC the MAC likely to be projected
for 802.16.3. But it can not be absolutely the same. The application and the
market is different. It addresses different features like NLOS and spatial
multiplexing. The process should be evolved for MAC too, simultaneously with
the PHY.


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stds-802-16@ieee.org [mailto:owner-stds-802-16@ieee.org]On
Behalf Of Phil Guillemette
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 8:08 AM
To: 'Marianna Goldhammer'; Roger B. Marks; stds-802-16@ieee.org
Subject: RE: stds-802-16: Published: Development Plan for 802.16.3 Air
Int erface Standard

Dear Marianna,

It is interesting to hear that there are weaknesses in the current 802.16.1
MAC that will not allow it to address an 802.16.3 system.  In order to
prevent these shortcomings from hurting the MACs operation in an 802.16.1
system, could you please provide further detail as to what they are?  I
think that it would be safe to say that your help to find any potential
problems with the MAC would be greatly appreciated by the entire 802.16.1
MAC Task Group.

Phil Guillemette
Acting Vice Chair, IEEE 802.16.1 MAC Task Group

-----Original Message-----
From: Marianna Goldhammer [mailto:mariannag@breezecom.co.il]
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 10:08 AM
To: Roger B. Marks; stds-802-16@ieee.org
Subject: RE: stds-802-16: Published: Development Plan for 802.16.3 Air
Int erface Standard

Dear Roger,

I have read the 802.16.1 MAC document and I have serious doubts that it is
to dot3 FRD. On the other side, this MAC successfully fulfils its

Trying to modify it in order to support dot3 requirements will actually stop
the 802.16.1
 project. According to my opinion, the two groups are focused on different
 with different bandwidth availability, that require different MACs. It will
take probably
one year to dot3 group to agree on MAC mechanisms, and you can expect some
them as being antagonist to the dot1 MAC mechanisms and philosophy.

Please consider to focus 802.16.1 MAC drafting process to the "above 10GHz"
only. It was a difficult process to reach this stage of the unified MAC
specification, it
will be very risky to invite the negative votes of many of the dot3 members.

I have no doubts that the dot3 group will try to adopt the 802.16.1 positive
elements, as
 part of its work.

Best Regards,


-----Original Message-----
From: Roger B. Marks [mailto:r.b.marks@ieee.org]
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 11:45 PM
To: stds-802-16@ieee.org
Subject: stds-802-16: Published: Development Plan for 802.16.3 Air Interface

Title: Development Plan for 802.16.3 Air Interface Standard -
        Task Group Revision

Document Number: IEEE 802.16.3-00/03r2

URL: <http://ieee802.org/16/sub11/docs/802163-00_03r2.pdf>

I feel the need to comment on this one, because I think this plan is
too slow. With people breathing down our necks in this area, I don't
think we have the luxury of waiting until next March to hear our
first proposals. If this standard is going to make an impact, we need
to get going. I think that TG3 should be looking at PHY proposals
this November, or January at the latest.

On the MAC side, remember that everyone in 802.16 is going to be
balloting on 802.16.1. There is every opportunity to make sure that
this MAC fits all of our needs. Once it does, TG3 can focus on
driving to a PHY draft.