The use of electronic comment collection using web-based forms is a new experience for us in the IEEE 802.3 CSMA/CD Working Group. We are motivated by a desire to eliminate the delays associated with mailing hardcopy drafts, ballots and comments around the globe, but as often happens when a new process is introduced into a familar system, a few minor bugs, or oversights can be expected.
This FAQ will attempt to answer the most commonly asked questions about the balloting process, and provide some additional explanatory material. If you would like to see something added to or corrected in the FAQ, or if you have comments or questions about the electronic balloting process, please feel free to send mail to: hfrazier@cisco.com .
Note that in the event of a conflict between the text of
this FAQ and the contents of the
Operating Rules
of IEEE Project 802 LAN MAN Standards Committee ,
the contents of the Operating Rules
of IEEE Project 802 LAN MAN Standards Committee take precedence.
Click on any of the links below to see the FAQs.
What is the deadline for comments?
All web based forms and email comments must be submitting by this date.
The deadline is a consequence of the 40 day requirement for IEEE Sponsor Ballots. However, the best thing that you as a commenter can do to help the IEEE P802.3z Gigabit Task Force is to submit your comments as early as possible. Every additional day that the editors and subtask force chairs have to work on drafting responses will help. Please take this to heart, and please don't delay in submitting your comments.
What is the deadline for ballots?
Hardcopy ballot forms must be received in the IEEE Standards office by this date. Please mail your ballot well in advance of this deadline.
What is the definition of a "voter"?
Voters are those individuals who have responded to an invitation to ballot and have been included in the Sponsor Balloting pool for this ballot. Voters must be members in good standing of either the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE), or the Computer Society. These individuals have received a hardcopy ballot form with the words FOR ACTION printed on the face of the ballot.
Observers are those individuals who have been included in the ballot pool, but who are not members of the IEEE or Computer Society. Also, the public at large can be considered to be "Observers" at this stage of balloting. Ballots from Observers are not considered binding, but any and all comments they care to submit will be given the due consideration of the 802.3 Working Group.
Anyone may submit comments on IEEE P802.3z. This includes Voters, and the public at large. However, only comments from Voters are considered binding, wherein the Working Group is obligated by its rules to consider and respond to the comments. Common sense dictates that a real technical deficiency in the document must be addressed, regardless of who brings the deficiency to the attention of the Working Group.
Voters are entitled to submit ballots.
Observers who have responded to an invitation to ballot form, and who have received a ballot form, may also submit (non-binding) ballots.
Voters are obligated to submit ballots.
See also certain obligations concerning Recirculation Ballots.
What's the difference between an "Approve" and a "Disapprove" ballot?
Approve (Affirmative). This vote may be accompanied by comments suggesting corrections and improvements (Approve w/ Comments). Action on such comments is left to the discretion of the Working Group.
Disapprove (Negative). This vote shall be accompanied by specific reasons in sufficient detail so that the specific wording of the changes that will cause the negative voter to change his or her vote to "approve" can readily be determined.
What obligations are associated with a "Disapprove" ballot?
Voters who cast ballots marked "Disapprove" must provide specific comments as the basis for their ballot. As with all other comments, a specific remedy must also be provided.
Voters who cast ballots marked "Disapprove" will receive a response which has been discussed and approved by the IEEE P802.3 WG (or its designated delegate, the IEEE P802.3z Gigabit Task Force). The voter will then be obligated to state, in writing, whether the response is acceptable and satisfies his or her comment. If all of the comments associated with a Disapprove ballot are satisfied, the voter is obligated to convert their ballot to "Approve with Comments".
See also certain obligations concerning Recirculation Ballots.
Why do we have all these "Abstain" categories?
There are three categories for "Abstain" ballots. Note that ballots marked "Abstain" (regardless of the reason for the abstension) do count towards satisfying the 50% return requirement.
Abstain For Lack of Time is used when a voter wants to respond to the ballot, but simply lacks the time to give the document a thorough review.
Abstain For Lack of Expertise is used when a voter feels that they don't have the required expertise to form an opinion about the state of the document.
Abstain Other requires a brief additional explanation. This is usually used when a voter encounters some extrordinary cirmstance that would normally inhibit them from casting a ballot, but wishes to return their ballot anyway.
The perferred mechanism is to use the web based comment form. This form is processed by some software tools, and then imported into a database. By using this form, you will help the Working Group address each of your comments in a timely and accurate fashion.
If you have a large volume of comments to submit, or you wish to work on documenting your comments offline, you may choose to use an alternate method, which consists of downloading an ASCII Text comment form, and then using your favorite text editor to fill in all of the requested information. You then send this form to an email reflector named stds-802-3-z-comments@ieee.org, and from there it goes into our software tools and database just like comments submitted using the web form.
Hardcopy comment submission should only be used as a last resort (for instance, if your ISP burns to the ground, and they aren't clever enough to have a disaster recovery site). Comments may also be submitted in hardcopy form, along with your ballot, by returning to the IEEE at the address shown on the face of the ballot. Voters should be aware that errors may result from the transcription of these ballots, despite the diligent efforts of the 802.3z staff.
How do I decide whether a comment is Editorial, Technical, or Technical Required?
Editorial comments are those comments concerning spelling, punctuation, grammar, and style. In addition, if the essence of the comment and remedy are that some text should be reworded, without altering the technical meaning of the text, then the comment should be labled as "Editorial".
Technical comments are those comments which affect the technical requirements identified in the document (i.e., sentences with the word "shall" in them). In addition, changes to parameters, values, tables, or figures that alter their meaning or substance should also be associated with Technical comments. As an example, consider the following sentence:
The value of Rmax shall be 1.5 k +/- 5%.
If a commenter wished to point out that an "omega" symbol was missing in this sentence, it would be appropriate to submit an Editorial comment to that effect.
If a commenter wished to suggest a different value for Rmax, say 2 k ohms, it would be appropriate to submit a Technical comment to that effect.
Technical Required comments are those comments which a voter feels must be addressed before they can convert their ballot from "Disapprove" to "Approve with Comments". In the example above, if a voter felt that the change to 2 k ohms was essential, it would be appropriate for them to submit a Technical Required comment to that effect, and to mark their ballot "Disapprove".
What if I have a comment of a global or general nature?
If you have a comment which affects many subclauses (for instance, a spelling or gramatical error which appears multiple times in the document) use the keyword "Global" in the Clause: field. This will remind the editors to perform a global search and replace operation. This keyword should not be used for technical issues, because technical changes should be given more thorough evaluation, lest they be made inappropriately.
Do I really have to fill in all of the various fields in the comment forms?
ABSOLUTELY! You must supply all of the requested information. If you don't, our comment processing tools will choke and will not enter your comment into the database. Please be especially careful when using the ASCII form to submit comments. Please make sure that you don't omit any of the fields, or the field identifiers (CommenterName:, CommenterPhone:, etc). Don't alter the spelling, capitalization, or punctuation of the field identifiers.
This may seem burdensome, but please recognize that the Task Force staff will go bonkers if they have to re-enter all of your thousands of comments by hand, or try to undo your creative editing. We have written some software tools to process your comments, enter them in a database, dispatch them off to editors, and track their status. Unfortunately, we are not schooled in the art of artificial intelligence based natural language text processing algorithms, so our tools are somewhat simple minded.
The only acceptable way to submit a ballot is to send it in hardcopy form to the IEEE, at the address shown on the face of the ballot. An exception is made for overseas voters, who may fax their ballot it, but this is strongly discouraged in the case of this ballot, because the ballot pool is so large.
Note that the ballot deadline is the day by which all ballots must be received at the IEEE. Please mail (or FedEx, or whatever) your ballots well before this date.
Note also that you do not have to mail your comments to the IEEE if you submit them via the web, or using the ASCII form. The IEEE standards office will get a carbon copy of all comments which are submitted electronically.
What happens to comments after I submit them?
Wonderous and magical things, indeed. Comments submitted via the WWW or email are processed with some software tools, and then loaded into a database.
Once the comments are in the database, we will send each commenter a confirmation that their comments have been received. We will also dispatch each comment out to the appropriate IEEE P802.3z Gigabit Task Force editor or sub task force chair, depending on which clause the comment concerns. The editor or chair will have the responsibility of drafting a proposed response for each of the comments which affect their clause(s), and they may solicit the assistance of any one they wish in performing this task. These responses will be accepted or revised as necessary, by the Gigabit Task Force at its next meeting.
Once the Task Force reaches agreement on the proposed response, it will be formally accepted by the Task Force, and any required changes to the document will be made in the next draft. The comment and response will also be posted on a WWW page for all the world to see. Finally, a copy of the response will be sent to the commenter, who will be asked whether they are satisfied with the response.
Can I submit comments before I submit a ballot?
No problem. In fact, we encourage it. Go ahead and start submitting your comments as soon as you can. You can follow up with your ballot at any point before the deadline.
Can I submit comments after I submit a ballot?
You can do it, but all comments must be received prior to the deadline.
Can I change my mind and submit another ballot?
This practice is discouraged by the IEEE Balloting Services Department.
After the deadline has passed you can withdraw a comment or "Disapprove" ballot but you may not enter a new "Disapprove" ballot or change an "Approve" or "Approve w/ Comment" ballot to "Disapprove" on the initial Sponsor ballot. However, the Recirculation ballot stage does provide a window of opportunity for you to change your ballot to "Disapprove".
What are the rules for closure and passage of Sponsor ballots?
Once the deadline has been reached, the ballots received are counted. At least 75% of the voting members of the Sponsor Ballot pool must return their ballots in order for the ballot to close successfully. If less than 75% of the ballots are returned, we have a problem.
The ballot will stand approved if the ratio:
(Approve + Approve wComments) / (Approve + Approve wComments + Disapprove)
is greater than or equal to 0.75 (75% approval rate)
Note that "Abstensions" don't count in the demominator.
If the ballot stands approved, life is good. We work on comment resolution, and focus on resolving the technical deficiencies in the document. We will make every effort to address the concerns of the voters who cast "Disapprove" ballots, and we will make every effort to address the comments from the voters who cast "Approve w/ Comments" ballots.
Once comment resolution has been completed, we will reassess the approval rate, because it is expected that some of the "Disapprove" ballots will convert to "Approve w/ Comments" as a result of the comment resolution process. At this point, the approval rate is usually higher than the initial approval rate. In some cases, it has been unanimous. However, we aren't done yet, because a Recirculation ballot may be required.
If the ballot fails to garner a 75% approval rate, we have a problem. We will attempt to address the concerns of the voters who cast "Disapprove" ballots, in the hopes of getting enough of them to convert their ballots to "Approve w/ Comments" for the ballot to pass. At the same time, we must take care to heed the will of the majority, and maintain consensus.
What is a Recirculation Ballot?
Once the initial Sponsor ballot has closed and stands approved, it is expected that some technical changes may have to be made to the document in order to resolve comments. It is also possible that there may remain some Technical Required comments associated with "Disapprove" ballots that have not been resolved to the satisfaction of the commenter. This might occcur, for instance, if the commenter's SuggestedRemedy is at odds with the consensus of the rest of the Working Group.
If either technical changes have been made to the document, or if unresolved Technical Required comments exist, then the document must be sent out for a Recirculation Ballot. This ballot is sent to all of the original members of the ballot pool, including all voters and observers. Any unresolved Technical Required comments, along with the response to such comments as adopted by the Working Group, must also be included with the Recirculation Ballot, so that all members of the ballot pool have a chance to see them.
The duration of a Recirculation Ballot is 20 days (half the time for the initial ballot), because there should be substantially less material to review. The same ballot form and response categories are used for Recirculation Ballots as for the initial ballot. However, there is an important difference in the ballot procedure. During a Recirculation Ballot, it is not necessary to return the ballot, unless a voter wishes to change his or her vote (in either direction). If they do return a ballot, then the new ballot supercedes the ballot cast during the initial ballot. If they do not return a ballot, then the ballot they cast during the initial ballot stands as the official record of their vote. Voters and who cast "Disapprove" ballots during the initial ballot are obligated to respond and change their ballot to "Approve w/ Comments" if their comments have been resolved to their satisfaction.
As a consequence, it should be obvious that there is no return rate requirement for Recirculation Ballots, and by definition, they always close. Also note that as a consequence of restricting the Recirculation Ballot document to those areas which have undergone technical changes, the only areas which are considered "fair game" for new comments during a Recirculation Ballot are the areas which underwent change from the initial ballot draft.
After a Recirculation Ballot closes, the approval rate is reassessed. The same formula is used to calculate a final approval rate. If the final approval rate is greater than or equal to 75%, and if no new "Disapprove" ballots were received during the recirculation, and no new technical deficiencies identified in the document, the document may be forwarded to the next level of balloting.
The primary goal during a Recirculation Ballot is to maintain consensus, on the assumptions that consensus was reflected by the outcome of the Working Group ballot, and that the primary responsibility of the Working Group is to respect the wishes of the majority. Furthermore, though the Working Group must perform a Recirculation under the circumstances described above, it is also obligated to move the document forward through the standards process once consensus has been achieved. Thus, Recirculation Ballots are to be performed without delay.
Why are these people "Hound Dogging" me? How do I make them stop?
The all-volunteer Hound Dog force is charged with the task of pestering the voting membership of the Sponsor ballot pool to beg, plead with, cajole, (did I mention beg) them to return their ballots. With the monumental return requirement we are facing, a certain amount of "get out the vote" activity is necessary.
The Hound Dogs will also ask you to submit your comments as early as possible, so that the editors can begin work on drafting responses. Getting the Hound Dogs off your tail is simplicity itself. Just submit your ballot and comments!