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RE: Bob Grow's proposed rewording of the ++PROPOSED RULE CHANGE LETTER BALLOT




No, I read it differently:

The chair decides what is procedural and will pass with majority and what is
technical and will pass with 75 % or higher support.

Vic

> ----------
> From: 	Tony Jeffree[SMTP:tony@jeffree.co.uk]
> Sent: 	Friday, October 08, 1999 18:45
> To: 	Grow, Bob
> Cc: 	'rdlove@us.ibm.com'; stds-802-sec@ieee.org
> Subject: 	RE: Bob Grow's proposed rewording of the ++PROPOSED RULE
> CHANGE LETTER BALLOT
> 
> 
> Bob -
> 
> That's the way I read it too - I aggree with your conclusion.
> 
> Regards,
> Tony
> 
> At 09:05 08/10/99 -0700, Grow, Bob wrote:
> >The way I read the operating rules (5.1.4.1), the WG Chair decides if
> >something is procedural or technical, and is authorized to decide
> procedural
> >items autocratically (no motion required).  Most Working Groups also vote
> >some procedural items using Roberts Rules, but that is at the discretion
> of
> >the Chair or as defined in the WG Operating Rules.  Adding the proposed
> text
> >is certainly outside the scope of explicitly defining WG electronic
> >balloting, and I would be adverse to sliding in a limitation on the
> Chair's
> >powers or forcing changes in the operation of WGs.
> >
> >--Bob Grow
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: rdlove@us.ibm.com [mailto:rdlove@us.ibm.com]
> >Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 5:42 AM
> >To: Tony Jeffree
> >Cc: stds-802-sec@ieee.org
> >Subject: RE: Bob Grow's proposed rewording of the ++PROPOSED RULE CHANGE
> >LETTER BALLOT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Tony, I suggested putting that sentence in to make it clear that a 50%
> >threshold
> >was needed for other motions.  I would not be adverse to state that
> number
> >explicitly and continue to soft peddle Robert's Rules. (It is mentioned
> >somewhere that in the absence of other rules of ours to the contrary, we
> >generally follow Robert's Rules.  I don't recall where and don't have the
> >time
> >now to locate the reference.)
> >
> >Best regards.
> >
> >Robert D. Love
> >Program Manager, IBM ACS - US
> >Chair IEEE 802.5 Token Ring Working Group
> >IBM
> >500 Park Offices                   Phone: 919 543-2746
> >P. O. Box 12195 CNPA/656           Fax: 419 715-0359
> >Research Triangle Park, NC 27709, USA    E-Mail: rdlove@us.ibm.com
> >
> >
> >Tony Jeffree <tony@jeffree.co.uk> on 10/08/99 01:53:21 AM
> >
> >To:   Robert Love/Raleigh/IBM@IBMUS
> >cc:   stds-802-sec@ieee.org
> >Subject:  RE: Bob Grow's proposed rewording of the ++PROPOSED RULE
> CHANGE
> >      LETTER BALLOT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >At 15:07 07/10/99 -0400, rdlove@us.ibm.com wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>I wholeheartedly agree with Bob's words.  I would additionally add one
> >>additional paragraph that explicitly states that "Voting on
> non-technical
> >issues
> >>is governed by Robert's Rules of order".  You may or may not want to put
> >that
> >>paragraph following Bob's words, or where it is indicated that the chair
> >decides
> >>which issues are technical and which are not.
> >>
> >
> >An observation.
> >
> >I know that some working groups enjoy the adversarial atmosphere that can
> >be generated by clever manipulation of meetings and the over-use of
> >procedural mechanisms such as are embodied in Robert's Rules.
> Historically,
> >802.1 has not been one of those working groups; our operational approach
> >has been to attempt to resolve issues rather than to invoke procedures.
> If
> >there is an issue, taking a vote or indulging in procedural devices will
> >not make it go away, so it is a smart move to resolve the issue first.
> The
> >vote then becomes the formal confirmation, rather thatn the attempted
> means
> >of achieving resolution. Consequently, in the time I have been attending
> >802.1 meetings (since 1984), I cannot recall any occasion where it was
> >either desirable or necessary to invoke Roberts Rules.  For these
> reasons,
> >while I would in no way object to other working groups making use of RR
> as
> 
> >they see fit, I would be very concerned if Robert's Rules were enshrined
> in
> >the operating rules of 802 as the basis for making decisions in WG
> meetings.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Tony
> > 
>