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Re: [802SEC] 802-SEC reflector delay




The problem with 802 reflector delays has been going on for some time. 
I have been particularly aware of it in the last month or two because an
802 SEC electronic ballot that I returned via the reflector was not
received in time to be counted.

I understand that email uses "best effort" delivery, but some of the
delays that we are seeing seem rather excessive.  The long delivery
delays have serious implications for applications such as electronic
(email) balloting and suggest that something is "broken".

The delay behavior is VERY erratic.  For instance, emails sent through
802 reflectors last Thursday 3/27 had delivery delays ranging from
minutes (normal) to 4 days with no obvious ordering.  Emails with long
delivery delays will be interspersed in Date/time with emails have
reasonable delays.  In addition, the delivery delay for a given email
appears to be inconsistent across the recipients of the email.  For
instance, I have seen votes on an 802 SEC email ballot a full day before
I received the email announcing the opening of the ballot.

One possible cause that has been suggested, of the multitude of possible
causes, is that the email server to which a copy of the reflected email
is to be sent is busy when first contacted and does not accept the copy
of the email, the unaccepted copy then goes into some type of retry file
structure on the reflector for later transmission and then gets "lost"
in the retry file structure for an extended length of time.  Perhaps the
retry algorithm is not aggressive enough or has a bug.

I have copied the complete headers from 6 emails with LONG delays at the
end of this email.  Perhaps they contain some useful information

Any help that you can provide in resolving this issue will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Bill Quackenbush
Treasurer, IEEE P802 LMSC

Following are the headers from 6 emails with long delivery delays

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Luigi Napoli wrote:
> 
> Regarding your message below, I am not sure what is causing the delays.
> Please note that I have forwarded/cc'd this to the IEEE mail/majordomo
> mailing list administrator for investigation.
> It may be helpful if you could provide some information as to how long you
> have been experiencing these delays and whether it is a consistent or an
> intermittent problem.  Please send any info to postoffice@ieee.org (and cc
> spa-admin@ieee.org so that we are aware of the dialog in case any other
> standards working groups experience any similar problems.)  Any error
> messages or bounces that you can forward may also prove helpful.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Luigi Napoli
> Sr. Systems Administrator
> IEEE Standards Activities
> l.napoli@ieee.org
> PH: +1 732 562 3812; FX: +1 732 562 1571
> http://standards.ieee.org/
> _________________________________________________
> 
> On Mon, 31 Mar 2003, Rigsbee, Everett O wrote:
> 
> > Bill,  The two emails I have used in the past are shown in the CC: field above.
> >
> > But Bob O'Hara can probably tell you the best (most recent) address to use.
> >
> > Thanx,  Buzz
> > Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
> > Boeing - SSG
> > PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
> > Seattle, WA  98124-2207
> > (425) 865-2443    Fx: (425) 865-6721
> > everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bill Quackenbush [mailto:billq@attglobal.net]
> > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 5:11 PM
> > To: Rigsbee, Everett O
> > Cc: IEEE 802 SEC
> > Subject: Re: [802SEC] 802-SEC reflector delay
> >
> > All,
> >
> > What is the contact information for Luigi Napoli at IEEE-HQ?  I have
> > received at least 5 emails today from various 802 reflectors that were
> > sent last
> > Thursday.  That is a FOUR delay.  Something is very wrong.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > wlq
> >
> > "Rigsbee, Everett O" wrote:
> > >
> > > Maybe it's time to call Luigi Napoli at IEEE-HQ for a reading on what is going on with their mail server ???
> > >
> > > Thanx,  Buzz
> > > Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
> > > Boeing - SSG
> > > PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
> > > Seattle, WA  98124-2207
> > > (425) 865-2443    Fx: (425) 865-6721
> > > everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Bob Heile [mailto:bheile@ieee.org]
> > > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 3:51 AM
> > > To: Rigsbee, Everett O; Bill Quackenbush; IEEE 802 SEC
> > > Subject: RE: [802SEC] 802-SEC reflector delay
> > >
> > > Buzz
> > >
> > > I have had exactly the same experience as  Bill recently. When I announced
> > > the Network meeting in DFW, I knew  some of you got it since I got
> > > replies.  I did not get my copy for 4 days.  I resent it with direct names
> > > because I had no idea who got it and who did not.
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > > At 03:01 PM 3/20/03 -0800, Rigsbee, Everett O wrote:
> > >
> > > >Bill,  Two interesting things that I note from this:
> > > >
> > > >1.  You 2nd message actually arrived before the 1st message arrived, so
> > > >service is not even FIFO.
> > > >
> > > >2.  Your 2nd message took 40 minutes just to get to IEEE.
> > > >
> > > >It looks to me like your local email server is experiencing some serious
> > > >difficulties.  It's your SMTP not your KARMA !!!   :-)
> > > >
> > > >Thanx,  Buzz
> > > >Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
> > > >Boeing - SSG
> > > >PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
> > > >Seattle, WA  98124-2207
> > > >(425) 865-2443    Fx: (425) 865-6721
> > > >everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From: Bill Quackenbush [mailto:billq@attglobal.net]
> > > >Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 12:23 PM
> > > >To: IEEE 802 SEC
> > > >Subject: [802SEC] 802-SEC reflector delay
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >All,
> > > >
> > > >I recognize that some/many/most of you may have little interest in this
> > > >topic, but I find my recent experience with my emails on "802.20
> > > >affirmation" rather curious.
> > > >
> > > >As you probably know, I sent an email on the above topic Tuesday and
> > > >then resent the email on Wednesday as I had not received my copy for the
> > > >initial email from the 802-SEC reflector.  I have now received my copy
> > > >from both transmissions, but after significant delays (> 34 hours and >
> > > >13 hours).  Just for amusement, I asked Buzz Rigsbee for his copies on
> > > >the emails.  The total end to end delays for his copies were both under
> > > >7 minutes.  (The delays times were extracted from the complete email
> > > >headers.  All times were converted to GMT.)  The details are in the
> > > >following table
> > > >
> > > >Any thoughts?  Maybe I have the wrong karma.
> > > >
> > > >Thanks,
> > > >
> > > >wlq
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >In the following table, dates are in the format YYMMDD and
> > > >times are in the format HH:MM:SS.  All event times are GMT.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >             Initial     Initial     Resent      Resent
> > > >Event/      email to    email to    email to    email to
> > > >Item        wlq         Buzz        wlq         Buzz
> > > >------      --------    --------    --------    --------
> > > >
> > > >Sent        030318      030318      030319      030319
> > > >             19:11:55    19:11:55    15:16:29    15:16:29
> > > >
> > > >Received    030318      030318      030319      030319
> > > >by 802-SEC  19:12:02    19:12:02    15:56:32    15:56:32
> > > >reflector
> > > >
> > > >Received    030320      030318      030320      030319
> > > >from        05:32:08    19:17:42    05:24:23    15:59:07
> > > >802-SEC
> > > >reflector
> > > >
> > > >Last        030320      030318      030320      030320
> > > >timestamp   05:32:08    19:18:28    05:24:23    15:59:15
> > > >in header
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Total path  34:20:13    00:06:33    13:27:54    00:02:46
> > > >delay
> > > >
> > > >802-SEC     34:20:06    00:05:40    13:27:51    00:02:35
> > > >reflector
> > > >delay
> > >
> > > Bob Heile, Ph.D
> > > Chair, IEEE 802.15 Working Group on Wireless Personal Area Networks
> > > Chair, ZigBee Alliance
> > > 11 Louis Road
> > > Attleboro, MA  02703   USA
> > > Phone: 508-222-1393
> > > Mobile: 781-929-4832
> > > Fax:        508-222-0515
> > > email:   bheile@ieee.org
> >