Re: [802SEC] Plenary organization
I think the current text regarding evening meetings not conflicting with Monday tutorial time is a should - not a shall. Does that work as a non-definitive rule?
-----Original Message-----
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Roger B. Marks
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 8:08 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Plenary organization
I'm generally in line with this discussion, but I'm not in favor of
introducing any definitive rules precluding WG meetings during a
tutorial. In some cases, WGs have business that is more pressing than
a tutorial, particularly when the tutorial topic is of little interest
to the members of that WG.
Roger
On 2008/10/27, at 06:39 PM, Carl R. Stevenson wrote:
> Agreed ... Tue instead of Mon open for TG meetings. Mon (only) for
> tutorials. (can be "multi-track")
>
> Carl
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-stds-802-sec@ieee.org
>> [mailto:owner-stds-802-sec@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Geoff Thompson
>> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 4:17 PM
>> To: Pat Thaler
>> Cc: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>> Subject: Re: [802SEC] Plenary organization
>>
>> Pat is correct about the Tuesday 5:00 PM deadline
>> For that reason, I revise my proposal to keep Tuesday evening
>> (instead of
>> Monday) open for TF meetings
>>
>> Geoff
>>
>> At 08:09 AM 10/26/2008 , Pat Thaler wrote:
>> I agree with this rationale. I would also like to point out
>> that there has
>> never been a prohibition on groups meeting in parallel with
>> the opening EC
>> meeting. 802.1's Interworking task group generally meets
>> Monday morning.
>> That more groups don't do this is, IMO, a demonstration of
>> the difficulty
>> of getting turn out on Monday morning.
>>
>> I would also like to bring up another issue with moving the
>> opening EC
>> earlier or the closing EC later regarding transparency and
>> openness. Moving
>> them to the weekend (or late Friday night) makes it less likely that
>> regular 802 participants will stop by to observe. Moving opening WG
>> meetings to Monday morning would make it less likely that they have a
>> decision making turnout.
>>
>> As far as tutorial schedule, remember that the comment
>> deadline in our PAR
>> process is Tuesday 5 PM so it is very desirable to have any tutorials
>> related to PARs before us at that session held on Monday
>> night enabling
>> those from other WGs to hear an extended explanation
>> supporting the PAR and
>> 5 criteria before they make their comments. Therefore,
>> Tuesday is a better
>> candidate for giving up to WG use if we want to reduce to one
>> night of
>> tutorials.
>>
>> By the way, in the past it was very common for task groups to
>> use Sunday or
>> sometimes Saturday or the week before the plenary to hold "interim"
>> meetings to extend the working week of the plenary. We
>> haven't had to use
>> that as much in recent years because we have become more
>> efficient with the
>> widespread use of laptops and email reflectors. But if people
>> need more
>> time, it is always an option.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
>> [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Geoff Thompson
>> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 11:33 PM
>> To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>> Subject: Re: [802SEC] Plenary organization
>>
>> Colleagues-
>>
>> An alternate suggestion to David's as put forth below.
>>
>> I would suggest that We keep the Monday EC as it is for two reasons:
>> - Many of our North American attendees travel on Monday morning.
>> David's proposal (and that of others) would force (or at least
>> heavily nudge) a much larger chunk of our rank and file to
>> travel on the weekend. While this may seem like no big deal to
>> those of use (a) who are officers and/or (b) come from overseas,
>> it is significant to many new participants who have not yet
>> committed themselves to working with us and, in particular,
>> those who have young families. These are participants who
>> will vote with their feet.
>>
>> - My experience over the last 25 years has shown that the quality
>> of EC meetings is significantly handicapped by the late evening
>> format. That time slot has, in my strong opinion, demonstrated
>> a lower level of EC performance, diligence and collegiality.
>> Thus I think it would be a bad idea for the EC to go to an
>> evening time slot. (I say this in spite of my personal
>> metabolism
>> which gives me an early morning handicap.)
>>
>> I would offer an alternate to get more meeting time. That would be to
>> eliminate the Monday tutorials and have initial TF meetings on Monday
>> evening. Tuesday evening would be tutorials and the Wednesday
>> Social would
>> remain.
>>
>> I believe that this set-up would provide the following advantages:
>> - Lowest burn-out factor for the largest number of people
>> - The evening TF day at the front of the week when folks
>> are relatively
>> fresh.
>> - Lowest disturbance to room allocations/catering and
>> thus to ou hotel
>> contracts.
>> - At least 3 hours of additional TF time.
>>
>> I look forward to our discussions on this topic in Dallas.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Geoff Thompson
>>
>> At 10:02 AM 10/20/2008 , David Law wrote:
>>> Hi Steve,
>>>
>>> What is proposed here would give the WGs approximately 1.5
>> hours extra
>>> daytime meeting time Monday - allowing the WG to start at
>> 10:30AM - and
>>> two extra evenings - eliminate Tuesday tutorial and the
>> Wednesday social -
>>> which is a start.
>>>
>>> I however still think we should consider [1] moving the
>> Opening EC to
>>> Sunday evening to allow a full day of WG meetings Monday
>> and/or [2] moving
>>> the closing EC to allow a half day of WG meetings Friday
>> morning. Allowing
>>> WGs to meet Friday morning would also make Thursday
>> evening available for
>>> WG meetings - and I would suggest that might be a better
>> approach rather
>>> than eliminating the Tuesday tutorial or the social.
>>>
>>> I do realize that what I suggest places a greater burden
>> on all-ready
>>> overworked EC members, but I believe we should do
>> everything possible to
>>> allow the WGs the maximum time to do work.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> David
>>>
>>> ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
>> <STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org>
>>> wrote on 18/10/2008 13:56:42:
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:
>>> STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Shellhammer, Steve
>>> Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 11:01 PM
>>> To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>>> Subject: Re: [802SEC] Plenary organization
>>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>> I am NOT in favor of the following,
>>>
>>> 1. Moving Monday EC meeting to Sunday
>>> 2. Moving Friday meeting to Thursday night
>>>
>>> However, I agree with some other ideas,
>>>
>>> 1. Eliminate the 802 plenary and shorten the Monday
>> EC meeting.
>>> Get everything done by 10 AM so the WG's can start by 10:30 AM.
>>>
>>> 2. Eliminate the social.
>>>
>>> 3. Go from one night for Tutorials. Alternatively, make a
>>> deadline of 35 days before the meeting to commit to
>> tutorials. That
>>> way if we only have one night worth of tutorials we can
>> give Tuesday
>>> to the WGs. They would know 35 days in advance and could plan
>>> accordingly. They could get their agendas out 30 days in advance.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Steve
>>
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