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Re: [802SEC] Proposed rule changes for July meeting



John-
I think an appeals panel is a special case
and that those on the panel need to provide letters to be placed in the appeal permanent file. That would be a good thing to uphold the outcome of the appeal when it/if it goes to the next level. (And it would cover those appointed to the panel who don't have previously submitted letters for whatever reason.)
Geoff

On 137//12 10:20 AM, John D'Ambrosia wrote:
Geoff,
I was supporting Pat's point.

Personally, I feel that there are enough other reasons that have already been pointed out and I have not heard any other compelling arguments yet to change my viewpoint on this topic.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Thompson [mailto:thompson@ieee.org]
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:43 PM
To: John D'Ambrosia
Cc: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Proposed rule changes for July meeting

John-

On 67//12 12:40 PM, John D'Ambrosia wrote:
John,
As Pat already pointed out -

I agree with John. An additional reason is that non-voting EC members can also have substantive assignments from the EC chair including sitting on appeals panels.

Just to punch a hole in your argument.
Those eligible to be appointed to an appeals panel don't necessarily
come from the EC or from a pool of folks that have to have a current
letter of endorsement.

Geoff

While you are one example of a non-voting EC member, there are other examples of individuals who do partake in activities who need to be considered.

John
-----Original Message-----
From: J Lemon [mailto:jlemon@meus.us]
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 3:35 PM
To: John D'Ambrosia
Cc: James P. K. Gilb; STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Proposed rule changes for July meeting

Non-voting members can't do anything that the general 802 public can't
do. Non-voting members can speak their mind during plenaries. But so can
anyone else who wants to come up to the mic. Non-voting members can
communicate on this DL. But so can anyone else who asks to join the
list. Are we going to ask for endorsement and affiliation letters for
anyone who participates by speaking during a meeting or sending to this DL?

On 7/6/2012 11:34 AM, John D'Ambrosia wrote:

John,
There are non-voting members who do participate and can have impacts on the decision process via their actual participation.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: J Lemon [mailto:jlemon@meus.us]
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 2:30 PM
To: John D'Ambrosia
Cc: James P. K. Gilb; STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Proposed rule changes for July meeting

I see no reason why I, as a non-voting member of the EC, should need to
show either endorsement or affiliation. I don't partake in any
activities of the EC. So why would I need to prove that some entity
endorses my lack of activities? And since I can't vote, how does my
affiliation have any effect on anything?

John Lemon
Chair of Hibernated 802.17

On 7/6/2012 10:56 AM, John D'Ambrosia wrote:

James,
Speaking as the guy who will have to deal with people next go around - I would like to see both letters (endorsement / affiliation) called out in the rules, and believe both voting and non-voting should be required to provide both.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stds-802-sec@ieee.org [mailto:owner-stds-802-sec@ieee.org] On Behalf Of James P. K. Gilb
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 1:40 PM
To: Pat Thaler
Cc: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Proposed rule changes for July meeting

All

BTW: The issue here is the endorsement letter.  The affiliation letter
is required by ruling of the Chair.  I suspect that you both are
referring the the endorsement letter.

We could modify the text in c) (for the affiliation letter) to say
something like:
      c) Recognition that the individual is expected to act as both a
professional and as an individual expert and, if voting, in accordance
with the conditions stated in the Voting Guidance subclause of the IEEE
802 Operations Manual.

That would cover it, I think.

James Gilb

On 07/06/2012 07:41 AM, Pat Thaler wrote:

I agree with John. An additional reason is that non-voting EC members can also have substantive assignments from the EC chair including sitting on appeals panels.

Pat

-----Original Message-----
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of John D'Ambrosia
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 5:31 AM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Proposed rule changes for July meeting

James,
I believe all members, including their alternates, of the sponsor should be required to provide the necessary letters of endorsement.

Non-voting members should also provide the affiliation letter.  A modified version of the affiliation letter, which doesn't include the statement regarding how to vote, should also be required.  IMHO, such individuals still contribute to a decision process without voting by their participation in the debate of issues.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stds-802-sec@ieee.org [mailto:owner-stds-802-sec@ieee.org] On Behalf Of James P. K. Gilb
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 8:15 PM
To: 802 EC
Subject: [802SEC] Proposed rule changes for July meeting

All

In the interest of getting the P&P changes onto AudCom's agenda, I would
like to start discussion of the proposed changes by email so that we can
have some level of consensus by the Sunday night rules meeting that will
lead to a successful motion on Monday morning.

Accordingly, I would like to take up discussion of one of the proposed
changes on this email in search of feedback.

Every 2 years, the Recording secretary asks for letters of endorsement
from potential EC members.  Currently the rule states "Any person to be
confirmed by the Sponsor shall ...".  I had produced two suggestions:

       a) "All members of the Sponsor shall ..."
       b) "All voting members of the Sponsor shall ..."

However, I have noticed that this leaves out WG and TAG Vice Chairs, who
are not members of the Sponsor, but can vote (under the newly modified
rules) and are confirmed by the sponsor.

It turns out that there is no central place that lists all the persons
that are to be confirmed by the Sponsor.

So 2 questions:
       1) Should non-voting members of the Sponsor be required to file
letters of affiliation including the statement regarding how to vote?
       2) Should we add a list of the persons to be confirmed by the Sponsor?

James Gilb

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