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Re: [802SEC] WG membership rules

James-
(See below)
On Feb 21, 2014, at 11:23 AM, James P. K. Gilb wrote:


Pat
Subclause 7.2.3 is separate from subclause 7.2.2. Subclause 7.2.3 clearly states that "membership is re-established as if the person were a new candidate member." applies only "If lost per this subclause"
The question David responded to is a members failure to retain membership. This does not affect the "Loss" subclause, which is not relevant to this discussion.
IMHO: It would not be unreasonable to allow a person to retain membership if they are attending but not voting on letter ballots. By attending, they are (or should be) participating in the group.
IMHO (admittedly less humble than yours) the nominal rules make no provision for maintaining membership by merely having perfect attendance and participating in meetings. HOWEVER, a WG Chair has the unilateral right and privilege to grant WG membership to anyone who the chair decides makes sufficient contribution to the WG. This right depends only upon the discretion of the WG Chair without specific regard to attendance or voting record. By tradition, chairs have used this privilege sparingly. 

Geoff
I guess I will add this to the Rules discussion in March and we should further discuss it on the June call so that we can have a resolution for July. 

James Gilb

On 02/21/2014 08:34 AM, Pat Thaler wrote:

Dear Adrian,
I agree with the interpretation Tony gave - that is, the person has to regain voting rights as a new member starting with accumulating participation credit.
If one interprets it as David suggests, then the Loss provision has no teeth. Someone who regularly attends WG meetings and regularly fails to vote on ballots could regain their voting rights at the start of each plenary and would lose nothing by their non- responsiveness. 

Regards,
Pat

-----Original Message-----
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org ] On Behalf Of Law, David 
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 4:24 AM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] WG membership rules

Hi Adrian,
To answer what I understand your question to be, in IEEE 802.3, if a member fails to maintain voting membership through lack of attendance, they keep previous attendances for future gain to voting membership. 

Best regards,
  David

-----
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org ] On Behalf Of Stephens, Adrian P 
Sent: 21 February 2014 07:34
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [802SEC] WG membership rules

Dear SEC,
If you are responsible for maintaining voting status for your WG, please respond to the 
question at the end of this email.
A query by an 802.11 member causes me to question how I've interpreted the WG P&P regarding 
loss of membership through non-attendance.

The WG P&P State: (my highlight)

7.2.2. Retention
Membership is retained by participating in at least two of the last four plenary sessions. One duly constituted interim WG or task group session may be substituted for one of the two plenary 
sessions.

7.2.3. Loss
Excepting recirculation letter ballots membership may be lost if two of the last three WG letter ballots are not returned, or are returned with an abstention for other than "lack of technical expertise." This rule may be excused by the WG Chair if the individual is otherwise an active participant. If lost per this subclause, membership is re- established as if the person were a new 
candidate member.
It describes how to retain membership by participation, but does not state what happens if the member fails to maintain membership. In the case of failure to return ballots, it is 
explicit that the member is reset as though a new member.
So, the rules are ambiguous. You could interpolate a rule similar to the highlighted case for non-attendance (which I have unconsciously done in 802.11). In doing so, I am following 
previous 802.11 vice chairs' interpretation.

We have a member with the following attendances
03 2013 - No (plenary)
05 2013 - No (interim)
07 2013 - Yes (plenary)
09 2013 - No (interim)
11 2013 - No (plenary)  (loses voting rights)
01 2013 - Yes (interim)
03 2013 - Yes (plenary)
According to the "everything reset" interpretation, the member is an aspirant at the start of march. According to the "2 in last 4 plenaries, regardless of loss of voting rights in this period" 
interpretation,  he is a potential voter.
The implication of the "does not reset" interpretation is that a member never transitions to non-member directly, but always transitions first to aspirant. And then later transitions to non-member.
IMHO, your working groups must be operating one of the following two rules: 
1.       Resets to non-member,  loses previous attendances
2. Reverts to aspirant, keeps previous attendances for future gain to voting member.
Please let me know of these rule you are operating. If it turns out we're all doing the same thing, we should 
put that in the WG P&P.


Best Regards,

Adrian P STEPHENS

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