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Re: [802SEC] IEEE 802 Orientation slides, 2018 update

Geoff and Ben,

Thanks for the comments. I think that the current text is pretty accurate, per IEEE Std 802, subclause 5.3 ("Interconnection and interworking"):

-IEEE Std 802 (in 5.3.2 "MAC-sublayer interconnection: Bridges") says: "IEEE Std 802.1D provides the basic specification for bridge interworking among IEEE 802 networks... IEEE Std 802.1Q adds additional capabilities."
-IEEE Std 802 says "Figure 7 shows the position of the bridging functions within the MAC sublayer; note particularly that relaying and filtering are considered to belong entirely within the MAC sublayer."

I should replace "MAC layer" with "MAC sublayer" when I do the next update.


On July 5, 2018 at 10:07:54 AM, Benjamin A. Rolfe ( wrote:

The terminology in 802.1D uses the term "interconnection" to describe what a MAC bridge does and "interworking" to to mean operation of different implementations of the standard ("interworking" is used in Annex A and G of 802.1D).  Not sure it matters at the level of this presentation tho using terminology consistently as used in 802 standards seems a good example to set from the start ;-).

On 7/4/2018 1:18 PM, Geoff Thompson wrote:

Suggestions for minor further refinement (which should not upset the presenter)

Slide 7 Current text:
IEEE Std 802.1D and 802.1Q specify interworking among IEEE 802 networks by bridging at the MAC layer

Proposed text:
IEEE Std 802.1D and 802.1Q specify interworking among IEEE 802 networks by bridging between MACs just above the MAC sub-layer

Slide 8 Current text:
Requesting document that, once approved, authorizes work on a standardization Project

Proposed text:
Requesting document that, once approved, authorizes work on a standardization Project by the IEEE-SA


On Jul 4, 2018, at 12:53 PMPDT, Roger Marks <> wrote:

Thanks to all for comments (including Geoff offline). I took the opportunity to do another hefty upgrade. This version addresses most of the comments, though not all, because in some cases there wasn't full agreement. I also added some new material.

There were some great comments, and I think that the comment process has resulted in a much better document, so I appreciate the help.

I don't plan to do further revisions before the next orientation meeting (next Monday) because the presenter needs time to review the slides. Let me know if you have further comments and I can make an update for the following orientation.

I have posted the final document on mentor:

John, notice that this link does not have a revision number. In this way, mentor will automatically download the most recent version. I am suggesting this URL format so that you don't need to edit the web page if the slides are revised.



On July 3, 2018 at 2:38:09 PM, Jon Rosdahl ( wrote:

HI Roger,
   In general, I am not all that excited with this new format for the tutorial.
I don't think that the deletions that John is suggesting is not correct.
I think that it is important to give an understanding of where we fit in the overall IEEE organization, and new comers to 802 are new to IEEE and they should understand how we fit in.
If nothing else we should have a comparable information slide about the Computer Society to show how we explicitly fit in and help encourage membership there as well.
Also the comment #2 from John is that there are only two examples of Societies (Computer and Communication) . I see this as an example, maybe a dotted line is missing, but otherwise I don't see a problem with this slide.

All in All, the new format is your decision, I maybe just too comfortable with the old format and would have just updated it (with some of the newer slides you have about the structure).
The Process slides in the attached deck is more a clearer picture of the process. IMHO.
I may have more feedback later, but have run out of time to do more review today.

Jon Rosdahl                 Engineer, Senior Staff
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On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Paul Nikolich <> wrote:

Adding to John's feedback:

a) I'd like to see the Affiliation and 802 Participation topics to be covered one right after the other in the meeting.
b) slide 10: change "Document that authorizes work on a standardization Project" to "Document that requests authorization to begin a standardization Project"
c) slide 11: change "Group formed to investigate a potential project and produce a PAR" to "Group chartered to investigate the initiation of a potential project and produce a draft PAR if appropriate"
d) slide 17: a Study Group is optional, add [optional] similar to CFI/TIC/IC box
e) slide 17: a Study Group produces 'draft PAR and CSD' (to be consistent with (c) above
f) slide 17: change "Start work in Working Group" to "Start work on approved Project in Working Group
g) slide 17: change arrow "Standards Board Approval" to "Standards Board approves Project Request"
h) slide 19: change box "Standards Board Approval" to "Standards Board approves Project's final draft"
i) slide 20: add initial bullet clarifying a Standard consists of Base+amendments+corrigenda (optionally give a hypothetical example too?)
j) slide 28: add please feel free to ask anyone on the EC for more information or help (but mostly Roger...)



------ Original Message ------
From: "John DAmbrosia" <>
Sent: 6/27/2018 12:57:33 PM
Subject: Re: [802SEC] IEEE 802 Orientation slides, 2018 update (draft)

Roger –

Here is my feedback



  1. Mentor Doc # missing
  2. Page 6 -prior diagram noted that there were 25 IEEE societies and councils – now there are only 2?
  3. Previously 802 was noted under standardization activities, now it is only noted under technical activities.  While I understand IEEE-SA may want to broaden what they are seen as doing – 802 is about market relevant standards – this seems lost in this new diagram.
  4. Slides 7 & 8 should be deleted IMO.  This is a newcomer program for IEEE 802- not IEEE.  If IEEE wants to have its own introduction – let it do it- and not dilute this orientation.
  5. Slide #9 deleted this bullet - Voter’s are individuals, not entities (e.g. companies).  I think this needs to stay in the orientation- it is a key point.
  6. I do not care for the definition of IC as non-standardization activity – it is a pre-PAR activity that may lead to standardization activity.  In addition it is an approach used to help people get standards activities started. 
  7. Slide #16 – why the inclusion of bylaws / ops manual here?  The page is noted as 5 basic principles.  There are more inclusive lists of governing docs to use.  Suggest you create new slide for related gov docs.
  8. Page 22 – you imply that membership starts when attending …. – this implies it is automatic – that is not the case for 802.3 – I can’t comment on all the groups – but this intro needs to be inclusive.
  9. Page 25 – Comment regarding photographs or recordings is not up to date.  Please refer to  see section
  10. I actually believe the Participation Slide SHOULD be shown, reviewed, discussed.  This is a key slide.

From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** <> On Behalf Of Roger Marks
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 1:06 AM
Subject: [802SEC] IEEE 802 Orientation slides, 2018 update (draft)


Dear EC,


One of my action items is to update the IEEE 802 Orientation slides, used in the Newcomer Orientation on Monday morning of the Plenary Session. I plan to introduce the new version at the July Plenary.


I have drafted a revision, based on the existing slides. I've updated and added some content, and I've refreshed the look. Much of the visual presentation comes from slides that Glenn and Jodi prepared for the Fellowship program. Thanks to them for that.


I've uploaded a draft at <>. I think this is close to final, but I welcome any comments within a week from now. I'll use a new document serial number for the final version.





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