Re: [STDS-802-11-TGAX] TGax CRC Teleconference 2020-03-19

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Hello Ross,

Thanks for the update.

- I agree we need to be clear on what (so-called) preamble puncturing

does to channels in the secondary 80 MHz channel, if present. The

current wording like "only the secondary 20 MHz channel in the

primary 80 MHz channel is punctured" at least suggests nothing in

the secondary 20M is punctured (CIDs 24105, 24106)

Ross: will further clarify with the group during the discussion and let you know the conclusion.

Thanks.

- If you delete "the primary 80 MHz of" at 561.24, then I think

you also need to delete it at 561.21. There are other similar

locations, e.g. 192.59/64, 274.38/43, 484.39/42/45/50, 498.11/17/22/30,

754.50/53 (CID 24105, 24106)

For 561.21, it is different when BW is set to 6. It is to say in P80, only S20 is punctured. Whilst in S20, it is arbitrary. Hence, "the primary 80 MHz of" cannot be deleted for this case.

561.24 is:

Set to 7 for preamble puncturing in 160 MHz or

80+80 MHz, where in the primary 80 MHz of the

preamble the primary 40 MHz is present, and at least

one 20 MHz subchannel that is not in the primary 40

MHz is punctured.

You're proposing to delete "the primary 80 MHz of", giving:

Set to 7 for preamble puncturing in 160 MHz or

80+80 MHz, where in the

preamble the primary 40 MHz is present, and at least

one 20 MHz subchannel that is not in the primary 40

MHz is punctured.

This is I agree unambiguous (whether it's the intent is a different matter),

though I think it's a technical change. Now, if the primary 20M is the

leftmost one, x means punctured, then all of the following are allowed:

--x-----

---x----

--xx----

--x----x [D6.0 ambiguous as to whether this is allowed]

-------x [new -- not allowed by D6.0 wording]

Actually, on re-reading the D6.0 text I realise it's even more

ambiguous than I thought, and maybe the last is allowed by D6.0!

Is the D6.0 trying to say

in the primary 80 MHz of the

preamble { the primary 40 MHz is present, and at least

one 20 MHz subchannel that is not in the primary 40

MHz is punctured }

{ (and in the secondary 80 MHz nothing is punctured) }.

or is it

in the primary 80 MHz of the

preamble { the primary 40 MHz is present, and at least

one 20 MHz subchannel that is not in the primary 40

MHz is punctured }

{ (and in the secondary 80 MHz you are free to puncture nothing, something or everything) }.

or is it

{ in the primary 80 MHz of the

preamble the primary 40 MHz is present }, and { at least

one 20 MHz subchannel that is not in the primary 40

MHz is punctured }

Anyway, it seems to me that 6 suffers from similar ambiguity,

so depending on where that discussion goes, you need to clarify

whether it means

in the primary 80 MHz of the

preamble only the secondary 20 MHz is punctured

{ (and in the secondary 80 MHz nothing is punctured) }.

or whether it means

in the primary 80 MHz of the

preamble only the secondary 20 MHz is punctured

{ (and in the secondary 80 MHz you are free to puncture nothing, something or everything) }.

For 274.38: no need for change

For 484.39/42: no need for change

I suspect these locations have the same ambiguity problem.

Basically all the "in the primary 80 MHz" instances need to be

examined and made unambiguous.

Thanks,

Mark

Mark RISON, Standards Architect, WLAN English/Esperanto/Français

Samsung Cambridge Solution Centre Tel: +44 1223 434600

Innovation Park, Cambridge CB4 0DS Fax: +44 1223 434601

ROYAUME UNI WWW: http://www.samsung.com/uk

From: Yujian (Ross Yu) <ross.yujian@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: 1 April 2020 02:11
To: Mark Rison <m.rison@xxxxxxxxxxx>; STDS-802-11-TGAX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: 答复: TGax CRC Teleconference 2020-03-19

Hi Mark,

Please see my response inline. And attached please see the updated version.

regards

于健 Ross Yu

Huawei Technologies

发件人: *** 802.11 TGax - HEW - High Efficiency WLAN *** [mailto:STDS-802-11-TGAX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] 代表 Mark Rison
发送时间: 2020年3月31日 22:09
收件人: STDS-802-11-TGAX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
主题: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGAX] TGax CRC Teleconference 2020-03-19

Hello Ross,

Thanks for the update. Sadly, I will be unable to attend this week's

teleconf as it will be at 01:00 for me.

In response to the remaining points:

- I agree we need to be clear on what (so-called) preamble puncturing

does to channels in the secondary 80 MHz channel, if present. The

current wording like "only the secondary 20 MHz channel in the

primary 80 MHz channel is punctured" at least suggests nothing in

the secondary 20M is punctured (CIDs 24105, 24106)

Ross: will further clarify with the group during the discussion and let you know the conclusion.

- If you delete "the primary 80 MHz of" at 561.24, then I think

you also need to delete it at 561.21. There are other similar

locations, e.g. 192.59/64, 274.38/43, 484.39/42/45/50, 498.11/17/22/30,

754.50/53 (CID 24105, 24106)

For 561.21, it is different when BW is set to 6. It is to say in P80, only S20 is punctured. Whilst in S20, it is arbitrary. Hence, "the primary 80 MHz of" cannot be deleted for this case.

192.59/64 is handled under CID 24106.

For 274.38: no need for change

For 274.43: will update accordingly under CID 24106

For 484.39/42: no need for change

For 484.45/50: handled under CID 24106

For 498.11/17/22/30: handled under CID 24106

For 754.50/53” handled under CID 24106

- CID 24175: you don't need to 'handle "This is covered by HE-CBW-PUNC80+80-SEC40"'.

It's not part of what's being proposed to change in the spec. So

it's just an Accepted

Ross: ok

- CID 24196: it's is perfectly clear that the proposed change is to

correct as shown explicitly in the comment. So it's just an Accepted

Ross: ok

Thanks,

Mark

Mark RISON, Standards Architect, WLAN English/Esperanto/Français

Samsung Cambridge Solution Centre Tel: +44 1223 434600

Innovation Park, Cambridge CB4 0DS Fax: +44 1223 434601

ROYAUME UNI WWW: http://www.samsung.com/uk

From: Yujian (Ross Yu) <ross.yujian@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: 30 March 2020 02:58
To: Mark Rison <m.rison@xxxxxxxxxxx>; STDS-802-11-TGAX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: 答复: TGax CRC Teleconference 2020-03-19

Hi Mark,

Sorry for the late reply. Attached please find the updated version with my replies.

I encourage the PHY guys to pay attention on some of the CIDs regarding 160MHz preamble puncture description.

Also, in the last comment, Mark wants to change the wording from preamble puncture to 20Mhz subchannel puncture. I’d like to hear people’s comment on this.

I will present it in this week’s CC. You are welcome to join the discussion.

Regards

于健, Ross Yu

发件人: Mark Rison [mailto:m.rison@xxxxxxxxxxx]
发送时间: 2020年3月24日 5:39
收件人: Yujian (Ross Yu) <ross.yujian@xxxxxxxxxx>; STDS-802-11-TGAX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
主题: RE: TGax CRC Teleconference 2020-03-19

Thanks for this, Ross. I attach some comments.

Mark

Mark RISON, Standards Architect, WLAN English/Esperanto/Français

Samsung Cambridge Solution Centre Tel: +44 1223 434600

Innovation Park, Cambridge CB4 0DS Fax: +44 1223 434601

ROYAUME UNI WWW: http://www.samsung.com/uk

From: *** 802.11 TGax - HEW - High Efficiency WLAN *** <STDS-802-11-TGAX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Yujian (Ross Yu)
Sent: 23 March 2020 00:46
To: STDS-802-11-TGAX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [STDS-802-11-TGAX] 答复: TGax CRC Teleconference 2020-03-19

Hi Osama,

Please add 497r0 into the queue. I plan to present it in April 2^nd’s call. It covers 10 CIDs that are assigned to me.

https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/20/11-20-0497-00-00ax-misc-cr-on-d6-0.doc

regards

于健 Ross Yu

Huawei Technologies

发件人: *** 802.11 TGax - HEW - High Efficiency WLAN *** [mailto:STDS-802-11-TGAX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] 代表 Osama AboulMagd
发送时间: 2020年3月17日 21:15
收件人: STDS-802-11-TGAX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
主题: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGAX] TGax CRC Teleconference 2020-03-19

Hello All,

The agenda for the teleconference on Thursday is below. Please let me know if you plan a submission to add to the list.

The plan is to start by checking out if any resolution is ready for motion. Then continue with 11-20/0315.

· Call the meeting to order

· IEEE-SA IPR policy and procedure

· Attendance Reminder – Please send an e-mail to Yasuhiko Inoue (yasu.inoue.h2k5@xxxxxxxxx) and/or Osama Aboul-Magd (Osama.aboulmagd@xxxxxxxxxx)

· Motions related to submissions discussed last week, if ready:

• https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/20/11-20-0297-00-00ax-cr-for-7-cids.docx - Jarkko Kneckt

• https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/20/11-20-0369-02-00ax-cr-cid-24054.docx - Po-Kai Huang

• https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/20/11-20-0352-01-00ax-cr-d6-0-he-phy-service-interface.docx - Bo Sun

• https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/20/11-20-0348-01-00ax-mac-cr-misc-cids-in-clause-3.docx - Alfred Asterjadhi

• https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/20/11-20-0349-00-00ax-mac-cr-misc-cids-in-clause-10.docx - Alfred Asterjadhi

https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/20/11-20-0315-00-00ax-resolution-for-cids-related-to-multiple-bssid.docx - Abhishek Patil
https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/20/11-20-0316-00-00ax-resolution-for-cids-related-to-bss-color.docx – Abhishek Patil
https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/20/11-20-0317-00-00ax-resolution-for-misc-cids.docx – Abhishek Patil
https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/20/11-20-0318-00-00ax-resolution-for-cids-related-to-uora.docx – Abhishek Patil
AoB
Adjourn

Regards;

Osama.

From: *** 802.11 TGax - HEW - High Efficiency WLAN *** [mailto:STDS-802-11-TGAX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Osama AboulMagd
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2020 2:21 PM
To: STDS-802-11-TGAX@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [STDS-802-11-TGAX] TGax CRC Teleconference 2020-03-19

Hello All,

TGax CRC has two teleconferences scheduled for this Thursday. Please let me know if you plan a submission to add to the queue.

I’ve uploaded r1 of the agenda document. https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/20/11-20-0477-01-00ax-tgax-crc-teleconference-2020-03-16-and-19-agenda.pptx

The plan is to continue where we left off and see if resolutions are ready for motions.

~~Monday March 16 @ 10:00 ET~~

Thursday March 19 @ 20:00 ET

Both calls are scheduled for 3 hours.

Teleconferences are bound by the conditions stipulated by the documentation below. Please review them and bring up any questions/concerns you may have before proceeding with the teleconference

• IEEE Code of Ethics

– https://www.ieee.org/about/corporate/governance/p7-8.html

• IEEE Standards Association (IEEE-SA) Affiliation FAQ

– https://standards.ieee.org/faqs/affiliation.html

• Antitrust and Competition Policy

– https://standards.ieee.org/content/dam/ieee-standards/standards/web/documents/other/antitrust.pdf

• IEEE-SA Patent Policy

– http://standards.ieee.org/develop/policies/bylaws/sect6-7.html

– https://standards.ieee.org/about/sasb/patcom/

• IEEE 802 Working Group Policies &Procedures (29 Jul 2016)

– http://www.ieee802.org/PNP/approved/IEEE_802_WG_PandP_v19.pdf

• IEEE 802 LMSC Chair's Guidelines (Approved 13 Jul 2018)