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Hi Dandan, Thanks. That is good point. Let’s assume those information is available in order to select AP. In this case, my question is how a beamformee determine which AP to select for joint transmission. Does the beamformee need to compute beamforming weights for all AP combination/hypothesis? Best regards, Wook Bong Lee From: Liangdandan (2012) [mailto:dandan.liang@xxxxxxxxxx]
Thanks Wook Bong for your question. Please see my answers as below. BR, Dandan 发件人:
Wook Bong Lee [mailto:wookbong.lee@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Thanks Dandan, One more question. In case of joint transmission, what will be procedure of calculating feedback? Some members assume joint NDP (from multiple APs) and calculating joint beamforming weights as if it is from same AP. [Dandan]:
For your mentioned scenario, the STA cannot distinct participating APs’ channel information unless NDPA and joint NDP carry some information for helping the STA to know. The information may be: which APs send joint NDP
and how many streams each AP has etc.
Best regards, Wook Bong Lee From: Liangdandan (2012) [mailto:dandan.liang@xxxxxxxxxx]
Hello Wook Bong, Many thanks for your reply. Please see my opinions below. BR, Dandan 发件人:
Wook Bong Lee [mailto:wookbong.lee@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Thanks Dandan for your prompt response, In my opinion, if a client is selecting APs dynamically, then it shall calculate all CSI for all participating APs then feedback selectively. This will be quite burden for the client device. [Dandan]:
Thanks, this a good point. Yes, this may be burden for the STA if it calculates all CSI for all the participating APs before feedback selectively. Actually, I think this is out of scope of our
current proposed document. Please let me clear our proposal again. Our proposal is a general idea that the STA can choose to feedback the requested BFR or not, which can reduce the feedback overhead. More specifically, in current 11 standard, the STA shall
feedback all the requested BFRs to all the sounding APs, while in our proposal even the STA receives NDP from the AP, it can choose not to feedback BFR to the AP.
I agree short term SINR can be changed over time even if long term SNR (geometric SNR/RSSI) is not. However, I am not so sure how much will be the system throughput benefit.
[Dandan]:
In my opinion, our proposed method does not conflict with using long term RSSI selecting participating APs. Our proposal can work alone and also can work with long term statistics selection. For
example, the master AP selects all participating APs based on long term RSSI. After receiving the sounding sequences from the participating APs, the STA determines to feedback BFRs to all or partial of participating APs based on the short term SINR for reducing
CSI feedback overhead. If both the CSI feedback overhead and CSI exchanging overhead among APs are reduced, the throughput gain can be obtained obviously. For the exact gain value, sorry, I do not have the value now. We can figure it out later. Best regards, Wook Bong Lee From: Liangdandan (2012) [mailto:dandan.liang@xxxxxxxxxx]
Hi Wook Bong, Many thanks for your email, I am quite interested in your questions. Sorry cannot answer your questions last night. Yes, this time is clearer. Please see my answers below. Please correct me if I misunderstood.
Looking forward to your reply. BR, Dandan 发件人:
Wook Bong Lee [mailto:wookbong.lee@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Hi Dandan, Thanks for your presentation. Here is my question. (Hope this time it is more clear.
J) STA selects APs dynamically or semi-statically?
I mean whether STA selects APs per sounding sequence (which is dynamic). [Dandan]: STA selects APs per sounding sequence for BFR feedback. After
the STA receiving NPDs from APs sequentially or in parallel, it only feedbacks the BFR to the AP that the channel quality is good between the STA and the AP.
Seems you assume dynamic selection as CQI is reported to AP3 in option 2. [Dandan]: In option 2, CQI can be used as “telling AP3 that I (the STA)
do not feedback BFR to you (AP3) and the channel quality between us is … (CQI)”. Additionally, for option 1, the STA just feedbacks BFRs to AP1 and AP2 and does not give any feedback to AP3, while for option 2, the STA feedbacks BFRs to AP1 and AP2 and CQI
to AP3. In my opinion, channel is not changing dramatically. In this case, long term statistics (e.g. RSSI from each AP’s Beacon) should be enough. For example, STA can report RSSI of participated APs, then (master) AP can select which APs to send sounding to the STA. In this case, STA does not need to select AP further during sounding sequence. [Dandan]:
In my opinion, RSSI cannot reflect the SINR directly. If we want to reduce BFR feedback overhead, the dynamic case should be considered. Best regards, Wook Bong Lee From: Alfred Asterjadhi [mailto:asterjadhi@xxxxxxxxx]
Hello all, This is a reminder that we have the first conference call of the series scheduled for tomorrow, Thursday (October 10th) between 10:00 - 12:30 ET. The teleconferences agenda is posted below: Below is a list of the contributions that are expected to be presented (in green) and contributions that are in the back up queue (in yellow), i.e., that may be discussed if there is time. If your name appears in the list please make sure to attend the meeting and that your contribution is uploaded to the IEEE mentor server. If you cannot attend the conf call please send a notification prior to the conference call. In addition, please note that for each contribution i will note the number of SPs I found (or was notified) for each document. If you do plan to run a SP please send a notification asap so that we can plan accordingly (need to setup an e-poll etc, details to follow in a separate e-mail if necessary).
o 1554r1-Data
Sharing for Multi-AP Coordination (Sungjin Park)
o 1573r0-Channel
Info. Feedback Method 4 Multi-AP Coordation (Dandan Liang)
o 1588r0-Multi-AP
backhaul analysis (Sigurd Schelstraete)
o 1592r0-Sim.
Results for coord. OFDMA in multi-AP op. (Jason Yuchen Guo)
o 1593r0-Joint
Sounding for Multi-AP Systems (Jianhan Liu)
o 1594r1-Coord.
Beamforming/Null Steering Protocol in 11be (David L.-Perez)
o 1595r0-Consideration
on Joint transmission (Lily Y. Lyu)
o 1597r0-JT
performance with Multiple Impairments (Ron Porat)
o 1616r0-Multi-AP
group formation (Cheng Chen) Teleconferences are bound by the conditions stipulated by the documentation below. Please review them and bring up any questions/concerns you may have
before proceeding with the teleconference IEEE Patent Policy - http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.ppt To join the meeting: Conference ID: 808-571-868 Best Regards,
-- Alfred Asterjadhi, PhD IEEE802.11 TGbe Chair, Qualcomm Technologies Inc. Cell #: +1 858 263 9445 Office #: +1 858 658 5302 To unsubscribe from the STDS-802-11-TGBE list, click the following link:
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