[STDS-802-11-TGBE] 答复: Discussion on power save of AP MLD

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Hi Rojan,

Thanks for your discussion. Please find my response inline.

Regards

Guogang Huang

发件人: Rojan Chitrakar [mailto:rojan.chitrakar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
发送时间: 2022年3月31日 11:00
收件人: huangguogang <huangguogang1@xxxxxxxxxx>; Kaiying Lu <Kaiying.Lu@xxxxxxxxxxxx>; Jarkko Kneckt <jkneckt@xxxxxxxxx>
抄送: STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; Chunyu Hu <chunyuhu@xxxxxx>; Park, Minyoung <Minyoung.park@xxxxxxxxx>; Morteza Mehrnoush <mmehrnoush@xxxxxx>; Laurent Cariou <laurent.cariou@xxxxxxxxx>; Yang, Zhijie (NSB - CN/Shanghai) <zhijie.yang@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Yonggang Fang <Yonggang.Fang@xxxxxxxxxxxx>; "顾祥新 (Xiangxin Gu)" <Xiangxin.Gu@xxxxxxxxxx>; Rubayet Shafin <r.shafin@xxxxxxxxxxx>; Liwen Chu <liwen.chu@xxxxxxx>; Abhishek Patil <appatil@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Gaurang Naik <gnaik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Srinivas Kandala <srini.k1@xxxxxxxxxxx>; Xiaofei Wang <Xiaofei.Wang@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; NEZOU Patrice <Patrice.Nezou@xxxxxxxxxxxx>; Ganming(Ming Gan) <ming.gan@xxxxxxxxxx>
主题: RE: Discussion on power save of AP MLD

Hi Guogang,

My questions were regarding the non-AP STA behavior:

1) how would the non-AP STAs know what power state the AP is in?

[Guogang Huang]If the AP MLD announce its affiliated AP is operating in the power save mode. The corresponding STAs operating on the same link shall regard the AP is in the power save mode with the doze state. Although it is possible that the AP in the power save mode has been waked up by other STAs, each STA who wants to use this link for transmission shall send a wake up request to this AP through another link. The main reason is we need to consider when the AP in the power save mode can enter the doze state again after being waked up.

Would the APs continue to transmit beacon even in sleep/doze mode?

[Guogang Huang]As I explained it in my contribution, the AP in the doze state is not able to transmit or receive any PPDU, including the Beacon frame.

What about non-AP STAs that are operating in power save mode themselves and may miss many Beacons?

[Guogang Huang]For the AP MLD, it shall guarantee that at least one affiliated AP is operating in the active mode.

2) How would the associated non-AP STAs operate when the AP is not in awake state?

[Guogang Huang]When the affiliated AP is operating in the doze state, the corresponding STAs pretty much also operates in the power save mode with the doze state. Because there is no necessary to remain awake. And note there is always an affiliated AP which is operating in the active mode, which can be used as an assisted link for the power save operation of other affiliated Aps, e.g. handshake.

Regards,

Rojan

From: huangguogang <huangguogang1@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 10:03 AM
To: Kaiying Lu <Kaiying.Lu@xxxxxxxxxxxx>; Jarkko Kneckt <jkneckt@xxxxxxxxx>
Cc: STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; Chunyu Hu <chunyuhu@xxxxxx>; Park, Minyoung <Minyoung.park@xxxxxxxxx>; Morteza Mehrnoush <mmehrnoush@xxxxxx>; Laurent Cariou <laurent.cariou@xxxxxxxxx>; Yang, Zhijie (NSB - CN/Shanghai) <zhijie.yang@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Yonggang Fang <Yonggang.Fang@xxxxxxxxxxxx>; "顾祥新 (Xiangxin Gu)" <Xiangxin.Gu@xxxxxxxxxx>; Rubayet Shafin <r.shafin@xxxxxxxxxxx>; Rojan Chitrakar <rojan.chitrakar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Liwen Chu <liwen.chu@xxxxxxx>; Abhishek Patil <appatil@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Gaurang Naik <gnaik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Srinivas Kandala <srini.k1@xxxxxxxxxxx>; Xiaofei Wang <Xiaofei.Wang@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; NEZOU Patrice <Patrice.Nezou@xxxxxxxxxxxx>; Ganming(Ming Gan) <ming.gan@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: 答复: Discussion on power save of AP MLD

Hi Kaiying,

Thanks for your discussion. Please find my response inline.

Regards

Guogang Huang

发件人: Kaiying Lu [mailto:Kaiying.Lu@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
发送时间: 2022年3月31日 4:01
收件人: Jarkko Kneckt <jkneckt@xxxxxxxxx>; huangguogang <huangguogang1@xxxxxxxxxx>
抄送: STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; Chunyu Hu <chunyuhu@xxxxxx>; Park, Minyoung <Minyoung.park@xxxxxxxxx>; Morteza Mehrnoush <mmehrnoush@xxxxxx>; Laurent Cariou <laurent.cariou@xxxxxxxxx>; Yang, Zhijie (NSB - CN/Shanghai) <zhijie.yang@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Yonggang Fang <Yonggang.Fang@xxxxxxxxxxxx>; "顾祥新 (Xiangxin Gu)" <Xiangxin.Gu@xxxxxxxxxx>; Rubayet Shafin <r.shafin@xxxxxxxxxxx>; Rojan Chitrakar <rojan.chitrakar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Liwen Chu <liwen.chu@xxxxxxx>; Abhishek Patil <appatil@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Gaurang Naik <gnaik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Srinivas Kandala <srini.k1@xxxxxxxxxxx>; Xiaofei Wang <Xiaofei.Wang@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; NEZOU Patrice <Patrice.Nezou@xxxxxxxxxxxx>; Ganming(Ming Gan) <ming.gan@xxxxxxxxxx>
主题: RE: Discussion on power save of AP MLD

Hi Guogang,

Thanks for the contribution.

I have two general comments for clarification first.

Regarding to “power save mode (10)”, “In this mode, the AP is allowed to transition between the awake state and the doze state. The AP operates in the doze state by default unless it receives a wakeup request and enters the awake state.”

Do you mean that the AP is not allowed to transition between doze and awake itself?

[Guogang Huang]Maybe I get your point. You mean if the AP MLD has DL buffered BU, it also can transition from the doze state to the awake state, right? I agree with you and will fix it in the next revision.

Regarding to “sleep mode (11)”, “In this mode, the corresponding AP is always in the doze state. And The non-AP MLD cannot send a wakeup request to this AP through its affiliated STA.”

What do you mean by “AP is always in the doze state”? Can the AP be awake at some point? Otherwise, the AP is just as disabled.

[Guogang Huang]This mode is used in the following use cases, e.g. the AP maintenance and regulatory reasons. During this period, I think the AP cannot be ready. But when the maintenance is finished, the AP can switch from the sleep mode to the active mode or the power save mode.

Please correct me if I misunderstood something.

Thanks,

Kaiying

From: Jarkko Kneckt <jkneckt@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2022 9:12 AM
To: huangguogang <huangguogang1@xxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; Kaiying Lu <Kaiying.Lu@xxxxxxxxxxxx>; Chunyu Hu <chunyuhu@xxxxxx>; Park, Minyoung <Minyoung.park@xxxxxxxxx>; Morteza Mehrnoush <mmehrnoush@xxxxxx>; Laurent Cariou <laurent.cariou@xxxxxxxxx>; Yang, Zhijie (NSB - CN/Shanghai) <zhijie.yang@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Yonggang Fang <Yonggang.Fang@xxxxxxxxxxxx>; "顾祥新 (Xiangxin Gu)" <Xiangxin.Gu@xxxxxxxxxx>; Rubayet Shafin <r.shafin@xxxxxxxxxxx>; Rojan Chitrakar <rojan.chitrakar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Liwen Chu <liwen.chu@xxxxxxx>; Abhishek Patil <appatil@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Gaurang Naik <gnaik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Srinivas Kandala <srini.k1@xxxxxxxxxxx>; Xiaofei Wang <Xiaofei.Wang@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; NEZOU Patrice <Patrice.Nezou@xxxxxxxxxxxx>; Ganming(Ming Gan) <ming.gan@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Discussion on power save of AP MLD

Hi Guogang, thank you for your contribution.

I have two comments:

1. 802.11be has disabled link concept that (no TIDs mapped to a link) could be used to enable long term affiliated AP sleep.

- I am wondering could the AP sleep mode be implemented by using disabled links?

2. Typically regular APs have not operated in power save, but have supported aggressive power save of the STAs.

- Have you considered to make power save enhancements (mode 10) to be available only for the NSTR Mobile APs?

- I think mobile APs could have more aggressive power save mechanisms.

Cheers,

Jarkko

On Mar 30, 2022, at 09:00, huangguogang <huangguogang1@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi all,

I have presented my contribution 22/356r5 in the call. But there is no time to take questions. I initiate this email thread to further discussion for doc 22/356. Please let me know your questions and comments.

Regards

Guogang Huang

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