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Hi Mark,
I echo Duncan and Po-Kai’s comment on the scoreboarding terminology.
Full state is to keep all the statuses within the reception window from an initiator, while the record can be temporal in partial state.
Best regards,
tomo
From: Mark Hamilton <mark.hamilton2152@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2022 7:51 AM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] 11-21/1111 further discussion
Hi, Alfred,
If we can have just a few minutes (5-10) to discuss these topics on the morning call, I can get the document updated with any agreement, for consideration at a future call.
Thanks. Mark
From: Alfred Asterjadhi <asterjadhi@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2022 4:36 PM
To: Mark Hamilton <mark.hamilton2152@xxxxxxxxx>
Cc: TGBE <STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] 11-21/1111 further discussion
[re-sending from gmail account]
Thanks Mark, and all for working on these resolutions.
I scheduled the doc for SP/discussion tomorrow evening (MAC call) however if the preference is to have the discussion on the morning call we can try to find some time on that call.
Let me know.
Regards,
Alfred
On Wed, May 11, 2022 at 3:31 PM Mark Hamilton <mark.hamilton2152@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
All,
As there does not appear to be consensus on how to describe the Block Ack blocks (based on the comments on the call this morning, and now these comments on my proposed update), can I suggest that we have a quick discussion on this on the call tomorrow morning (U.S. time).
Also, I am having a hard time figuring out how to sequence the SN and PN assignment versus PS queueing, for group addressed frames. In particular, we have existing text in D1.5 that says the AP MLD’s upper MAC sublayer will do the SN assignment, and then pass the frame to the affiliated AP(s) to be buffered and then do further processing/transmission. I think that causes issues with SN and PN ordering. Has this been covered in some other power save presentations/agreements (that perhaps I missed)? Does anyone have a clear view of how this is planned to work and/or is there agreement in the group? (I don’t think this is a significant change to my document, but there are details discussing this that need to be aligned to the correct operation). Perhaps this can be discussed quickly tomorrow morning, also?
@Alfred Asterjadhi, I’ll look to your direction on how to proceed most efficiently for the group’s time.
Thanks. Mark
From: Huang, Po-kai <po-kai.huang@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2022 2:28 PM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] 11-21/1111 further discussion
Hi all,
I agree with Duncan that we do not need to create term like ML BA Scoreboarding and we also do not need say lower MAC is always partial state.
Partial and full is just about whether your record is temporary or not, which is an implementation choice.
The following text also seems to be enough, so do we really need to add more?
· The MLD Upper MAC sublayer functions: “Block Ack scoreboarding for individually addressed frames (in collaboration with the MLD Lower MAC sublayer). Optionally, the MLD Upper MAC sublayer delivers the Block Ack record on one link to the MLD Lower MAC sublayer of other links”
· The MLD Lower MAC sublayer functions: “Block Ack scoreboarding for individually addressed frames (in collaboration with the MLD Upper MAC sublayer). Optionally, the MLD Lower MAC sublayer receives from the Block Ack record on the other links from the MLD Upper MAC sublayer”
Best,
Po-Kai
From: Duncan Ho <dho@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2022 12:13 PM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] 11-21/1111 further discussion
Hi Mark,
Thanks for the updates. I do not think the BA scoreboarding changes are needed because D1.5 section 4.9.5 already describes the following:
· The MLD Upper MAC sublayer functions: “Block Ack scoreboarding for individually addressed frames (in collaboration with the MLD Lower MAC sublayer). Optionally, the MLD Upper MAC sublayer delivers the Block Ack record on one link to the MLD Lower MAC sublayer of other links”
· The MLD Lower MAC sublayer functions: “Block Ack scoreboarding for individually addressed frames (in collaboration with the MLD Upper MAC sublayer). Optionally, the MLD Lower MAC sublayer receives from the Block Ack record on the other links from the MLD Upper MAC sublayer”
The spec also has a NOTE saying “NOTE 2—The Block Ack scoreboarding maintenance collaborated between the MLD Upper MAC sublayer and MLD Lower MAC sublayer is implementation dependent.” So it’s clear how the MLD upper and lower layer collaborate is implementation dependent.
Besides, the new term “ML BA Scoreboarding” could be misleading because a reader may try to find a section in the spec that describes how scoreboarding is done in the MLD while the Scoreboard Context procedures are well defined in REVme sections 10.25.6.3 (Full state) and 10.25.6.3 (Partial state) at the link level (not MLD level).
Also whether to do Full or Partial state is a choice of the receiver (per REVme) so we should not mandate Partial BA Scoreboarding in the lower MAC.
I believe the scoareboarding functionalities are mandatory for the lower MAC due to immediate BA but the BA scoreboarding-related functionalities in the Upper MAC should be optional.
Thanks,
Duncan
From: Mark Hamilton <mark.hamilton2152@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2022 10:46 AM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] 11-21/1111 further discussion
WARNING: This email originated from outside of Qualcomm. Please be wary of any links or attachments, and do not enable macros.
All,
Here is some status update, and request for ongoing discussion on the architecture presentation from this morning (document 11-21/1111):
· I removed the word “physical” from “physical links” in the text
· I corrected the typo “the use of”
· In Figure 4-30c, I am renaming “MLD lower MAC sublayer (MLD and legacy)” to just “MLD lower MAC sublayer”. This removes the “legacy” as correctly pointed on the call. However, this leaves the “MLD lower MAC sublayer” as the term for the shared component which is doing both MLD support and affiliated AP support. I note that this term is already in many locations in the draft, in clauses 4 and 5, so I proposed to keep it in the new figures to remain aligned. If there is concern with this use of the term, that can be a comment (on all the occurrences), on the next LB. Any disagreement?
· I am taking the suggestions in the chat, and proposing to change the “Block Ack Scoreboarding” boxes in the figures, as follows:
o For the upper MAC, in the MLD, it will say “ML BA Scoreboarding”
o For the lower MAC, it will say “Partial BA Scoreboarding”
o For the upper MAC, in the affiliated AP, it seems this is an implementation choice (is that right?), so how about “BA Scoreboarding (optional)”?
o There was a request to add some clarification about these Scoreboarding blocks to the text. I suggest that would go just below Figure 5-2b, and I’ll work on that and remit shortly. Suggestions/contributions would be helpful!
· For PS Defer buffering:
o I think the conclusion/agreement on the call was that this is correct to be in the upper MAC (and above the SN assignment). Any disagreement?
o Clearly, the label in the affiliated AP that says “AP MLD only” is just wrong. However, my latest understanding of how frame generation and routing needs to happen resulted in frames (such as Management frames, and group addressed Data frames) will need to be routed from the MLD upper MAC over to the affiliated upper MAC for SN/PN assignment and encryption, so the buffering for these frames needs to be merged with the buffering for “legacy” data frames, and it all needs to happen high in the affiliated AP stack. If this is agreed, then we need this block (in that location) in the affiliated AP upper MAC. I think that means just removing the “(AP MLD only)” text in all copies of this block, in the affiliated AP and the AP MLD. Agreed?
o There was a request to add some more text to better clarify this PS Defer buffering. I think that goes just below Figure 5-2b, and I’ll work on that and remit shortly.
· Figure 5-2b should be clarified with labels for the AP MLD and affiliated APs. The figure is already too complicated, so I do not want to add the outlines shapes, like Figure 4-30c. I suggest maybe just braces across the top of the figure, saying “Affiliated AP” and “AP MLD”? That is slightly misleading in that it is really only correct for the upper MAC sublayers, but would imply it carries into the lower MAC, also. But, I think it’s the best alternative. Comments or other thoughts?
Thanks. Mark
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Alfred Asterjadhi, PhD
IEEE802.11 TGbe Chair,
Qualcomm Technologies Inc.
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