|
With these definitions in clause 3 definition of terms, I predict a comment that these definitions are contain information not appropriate to clause 3. Due to having a lot of elaborative information describing the thing to which the term refers (which
doesn't belong in clause 3).
The comment might read something like:
These are describing the purpose for having these operating modes and how they are used, which is a lot of information about the mode of operation, not a definition of the term. This level of technical information belongs as elaborative informative text located
where the requirements (normative text) for the operating modes are defined. Or perhaps in an overview clause. But way too much information for clause 3. Acronyms make sense. proposed remedy might look like: remove definitions from clause 3. Retain acronyms.
Move elaborative text to <the clause where EMLMR and EMLSR modes of operation are defined>.
FWIW the TG might also just do it correctly in the draft now.
Just a thought
Ben
From: Stephen McCann <mccann.stephen@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2022 5:57 PM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] EMLSR and EMLMR definitions
Eduard,
I agree with the other comments that resources are not moved in an EMLSR mode, so I prefer my earlier definitions. This is what I propose to move forward with:
enhanced multi-link multiple radio (EMLMR) operation: A mode of operation that allows any of the stations (STAs) affiliated with a non-access point (AP) multi-link device (MLD)
on a set of enabled links, to move receive and transmit spatial streams to one link within the set, to increase resources on that link, for the immediately following set of frame exchanges. (#10935, #11820, #12035, #12706)
enhanced multi-link single radio (EMLSR) operation: A mode of operation that allows a non-access point (non-AP) multi-link device (MLD) with multiple receive chains and with
one or more radio(s), to listen on a set of enabled links, then move to receive on one available link within the set, for the immediately following set of frame exchanges.
Thanks.
Kind regards
Stephen
Hi Stephen,
I also disagree with Eduard in the sense that the EMLSR is “applied to a single-radio non-AP MLD”. EMLSR is a mode of operation, not a device-level capability. EMLSR can be applied to both single radio and multi-radio devices. In other
word, a device with multiple radios may elect to operate on EMLSR mode on a subset of enabled links (EMLSR Links), while other radios can operate on non-EMLSR links.
I prefer your previous definition in this aspect.
Best
Rubayet
|
Caution: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
|
Hi Stephen,
I disagree with the statement from Eduard. The EMLSR doesn't move around resources between different links. Each STA's capability is announced during the association process and that capability is used in the EMLSR mode.
As I commented in the call last week, it would be better to focus on the EMLMR definition, which is what the commenter is asking for.
yes, I think that is reasonable.
Dear Stephen,
As far as I understood, EMLSR is the same as EMLMR, but applied to a
single-radio non-AP MLD. Therefore, I'd use the same phrasing in both
definitions, based on the EMLMR definition you proposed (which I find more
accurate). Something like:
"*enhanced multi-link single radio (EMLSR) operation:* A mode of operation
that allows a single-radio non-access point (non-AP) multi-link device
(MLD) with multiple receive chains, to listen on a set of enabled links,
then move receive and transmit spatial streams to one link within the set,
to increase resources on that link, for the immediately following set of
frame exchanges.
"
Note that, in the uplink, the non-AP MLD can choose to use its tx chain(s)
on a different link each time (i.e. not only moves rx chains).
Cheers,
Eduard
On Mon, September 12, 2022 12:03 am, Stephen McCann wrote:
> Dear all,
> thanks for all the further comments on this topic. These are
> the some updated definitions that I have produced based on the comments:
>
> *enhanced multi-link multiple radio (EMLMR) operation*: A mode of
> operation
> that allows any of the stations (STAs) affiliated with a non-access point
> (AP) multi-link device (MLD) on a set of enabled links, to move receive
> and
> transmit spatial streams to one link within the set, to increase resources
> on that link, for the immediately following set of frame exchanges.
> (#10935, #11820, #12035, #12706)
>
>
>
> *enhanced multi-link single radio (EMLSR) operation:* A mode of operation
> that allows a non-access point (non-AP) multi-link device (MLD) with
> multiple receive chains and with one or more radio(s), to listen on a set
> of enabled links, then move to receive on one available link within the
> set, for the immediately following set of frame exchanges.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Stephen
>
> On Sat, 10 Sept 2022 at 11:39, Mark Rison <m.rison@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> > And for "all of the following frame exchanges" seems eternal in scope.
>> If this definition is intended to be read by someone lacking extensive
>> 802.11 knowledge then it could say, for "the immediately following set
>> of
>> frame exchanges"
>>
>>
>>
>> Or just leave the ending of the condition unstated:
>>
>>
>>
>> *enhanced multi-link single radio (EMLSR) operation:* A mode of
>> operation
>> that allows a non-access point (non-AP) multi-link device (MLD) with
>> multiple receive chains to listen on a set of enabled links, then switch
>> to
>> one available link within the set.
>>
>>
>>
>> > I think that at least for emlsr, instead of switch it might say
>> something like "receive"
>>
>> > It turns out that listening on the link on which receive is not
>> occurring is still possible during the receive
>>
>>
>>
>> You mean
>>
>>
>>
>> *enhanced multi-link single radio (EMLSR) operation:* A mode of
>> operation
>> that allows a non-access point (non-AP) multi-link device (MLD) with
>> multiple receive chains to listen on a set of enabled links, then
>> receive
>> to [on?] one available link within the set.
>>
>>
>>
>> ? That's not worse, but still doesn't explain the key point, which is
>> that the receive chains are reallocated to be used on the same channel.
>>
>>
>>
>> My suggestion would be:
>>
>>
>>
>> *enhanced multi-link single radio (EMLSR) operation:* A mode of
>> operation
>> that allows a non-access point (non-AP) multi-link device (MLD) to
>> listen
>> on a set of enabled links using one radio frequency (RF) chain on each,
>> and
>> then switch all the RF chains to one of the links for subsequent
>> single-user multiple input, multiple output (SU-MIMO) operation on that
>> link.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also, maybe it's because I wasn't there, but I find this definition
>> rather
>> confusing:
>>
>>
>>
>> *enhanced multi-link multiple radio (EMLMR) operation*: A mode of
>> operation that allows any of the stations (STAs) affiliated with a
>> non-access point (non-AP) multi-link device (MLD) on a set of enabled
>> links, to switch receive and transmit spatial streams of one available
>> link
>> within the set, to increase resources on that link, for all of the
>> following frame exchanges.
>>
>>
>>
>> I initially read "switch tx and rx" as being that tx becomes rx and rx
>> becomes tx.
>>
>> Even if it means "transfer both of them to another link" (i.e. you need
>> to
>> have
>>
>> a "to X" after the "switch"), isn't this a definition of EMLSR? What
>> does EMLMR
>>
>> do that EMLSR doesn't do?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Mark RISON, Standards Architect, WLAN English/Esperanto/Français
>>
>> Samsung Cambridge Solution Centre Tel: +44 1223 434600
>>
>> Innovation Park, Cambridge CB4 0DS Fax: +44 1223 434601
>>
>> ROYAUME UNI WWW:
http://www.samsung.com/uk
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Matthew Fischer <matthew.fischer@xxxxxxxxx>
>> *Sent:* Friday, 9 September 2022 14:44
>> *To:*
STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> *Subject:* Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] EMLSR and EMLMR definitions
>>
>>
>>
>> I think that at least for emlsr, instead of switch it might say
>> something
>> like "receive"
>>
>>
>>
>> It turns out that listening on the link on which receive is not
>> occurring
>> is still possible during the receive
>>
>>
>>
>> And for "all of the following frame exchanges" seems eternal in scope.
>> If
>> this definition is intended to be read by someone lacking extensive
>> 802.11
>> knowledge then it could say, for "the immediately following set of frame
>> exchanges"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 9, 2022, 2:19 PM Stephen McCann <mccann.stephen@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> thanks for your comments following my presentation of
>> 11-22-1196r3.
>>
>>
>>
>> Here are the revised definitions that I presented:
>>
>>
>>
>> *enhanced multi-link multiple radio (EMLMR) operation*: A mode of
>> operation that allows any of the stations (STAs) affiliated with a
>> non-access point (non-AP) multi-link device (MLD) on a set of enabled
>> links, to switch receive and transmit spatial streams of one available
>> link
>> within the set, to increase resources on that link, for all of the
>> following frame exchanges.
>>
>>
>>
>> *enhanced multi-link single radio (EMLSR) operation:* A mode of
>> operation
>> that allows a non-access point (non-AP) multi-link device (MLD) with
>> multiple receive chains to listen on a set of enabled links, then switch
>> to
>> one available link within the set, for all of the following frame
>> exchanges.
>>
>>
>>
>> Please let me know if you have any further suggestions. If we can
>> converge
>> on suitable text, then I can represent an updated submission next week.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Stephen
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> To unsubscribe from the STDS-802-11-TGBE list, click the following link:
>>
https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=STDS-802-11-TGBE&A=1
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> To unsubscribe from the STDS-802-11-TGBE list, click the following link:
>>
https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=STDS-802-11-TGBE&A=1
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> To unsubscribe from the STDS-802-11-TGBE list, click the following link:
>>
https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=STDS-802-11-TGBE&A=1
>>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe from the STDS-802-11-TGBE list, click the following link:
>
https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=STDS-802-11-TGBE&A=1
>
To unsubscribe from the STDS-802-11-TGBE list, click the following link:
https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=STDS-802-11-TGBE&A=1
To unsubscribe from the STDS-802-11-TGBE list, click the following link:
https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=STDS-802-11-TGBE&A=1
To unsubscribe from the STDS-802-11-TGBE list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=STDS-802-11-TGBE&A=1
To unsubscribe from the STDS-802-11-TGBE list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=STDS-802-11-TGBE&A=1
|