Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] [EXT] [STDS-802-11-TGBE] Call for Submissions for

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Hi Vishnu,

This topic was discussed several times in the group. The group can not get the consensus. Please see my replies below.

Best Regards,

Liwen

From: Vishnu Ratnam <vishnu.r@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2023 5:22 PM
To: Liwen Chu <liwen.chu@xxxxxxx>; STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] [EXT] [STDS-802-11-TGBE] Call for Submissions for next week TGbe sessions

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Hi Liwen and all,

I am re-forwarding my email regarding group-addressed frame reception for EMLMR (CID 19848) that was sent on Oct 10th.

The issue is not about NSS or MCS of group-addressed frames, the issue is how to ensure the EMLMR STA is capable of frame reception and another EMLMR STA is not performing frame exchanges at that time (as Qi also pointed out). As in the forwarded email, we can either say:

"On the EMLMR link(s), the group addressed frame(s) that are expected to be received by the non-AP MLD shall be buffered and delivered following the rules defined in 35.3.15 (Multi-link operation group addressed frames)." (this is so that the non-AP MLD knows the delivery time of group addressed frames and can make sure it is capable of reception at that time),

[Liwen] EMLMR non-AP MLD is different from the eMLSR non-AP MLD since an EMLMR non-AP MLD has full functional radio in each EMLMR link.

or,

"An AP affiliated with the AP MLD shall not deliver group addressed frame(s) that are expected to be received by an EMLMR non-AP MLD on an EMLMR link, while another AP affiliated with the AP MLD is involved in frame exchanges with another EMLMR STA affiliated with the non-AP MLD."

[Liwen] I assume the members have concern for this since this requires the real-time information exchange between APs. Another observation is that the transmission of the group-addressed frames is not reliable transmission anyway.

Any other suggested solutions are also welcome.

Regards,

Vishnu

From: Vishnu Vardhan Ratnam
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2023 9:43 PM
To: 'Liwen Chu' <liwen.chu@xxxxxxx>; STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] [EXT] [STDS-802-11-TGBE] Call for Submissions for next week TGbe sessions

Hi Liwen,

This email is to initiate discussion regarding the 3CIDs I requested to defer in your document 1541r1. I am resending the email here on the reflector.

CIDs 19846, 19847:

19846

571

If an EMLMR STA affiliated with a non-AP MLD obtains a TXOP and transmits a frame to the AP MLD, is another AP affiliated with the AP MLD allowed to initiate a frame exchange with another EMLSR STA of the non-AP MLD during that TXOP?

Please clarify.

19847

571

If two EMLSR STAs affiliated with a non-AP MLD obtain TXOPs that overlap and initiate frame exchanges with the respective APs affiliated with AP MLD, are there any restrictions on their TXOP duration or end times?

Please clarify.

Discussion:

When there is ongoing uplink frame exchange by an EMLMR STA with an AP affiliated with the AP MLD on a link (with the EMLMR STA as TXOP holder), the spec doesn't specify if another AP of the AP MLD can initiate a frame exchange as a TXOP holder. This can cause failure of the frame exchange initiated by the other AP. So we need to either say:

"An AP affiliated with the AP MLD as the TXOP holder should not initiate an individually addressed frame exchange with an EMLMR STA affiliated with a non-AP MLD while another AP affiliated with the AP MLD is involved in frame exchanges with another EMLMR STA affiliated with the non-AP MLD.", or,
“During a TXOP initiated by an EMLMR non-AP STA affiliated with the non-AP MLD, the other EMLMR STA(s) affiliated with the non-AP MLD shall not respond to initial frame(s) addressed to them.”

The current spec text in the clause only covers the case where the frame exchange is initiated by the AP as a TXOP holder.

CID 19848:

19848

569

Clarification is required on how group-addressed frames are received by an EMLMR device

Please provide details.

Discussion:

During the time that an EMLMR STA of a non-AP MLD is involved in a frame exchange with the AP, it is possible that the other EMLMR STA(s) of the non-AP MLD are not capable of receiving any frames. If the group addressed frames on other EMLMR links are delivered at this time, then the EMLMR non-AP MLD may not be able to receive the group addressed frames. Note that as per baseline, the group addressed frames can be delivered at any time if all the receiving STAs are in awake state, which will make it difficult for an EMLMR non-AP MLD to receive group addressed frames reliably. So we need to either say:

"On the EMLMR link(s), the group addressed frame(s) that are expected to be received by the non-AP MLD shall be buffered and delivered following the rules defined in 35.3.15 (Multi-link operation group addressed frames)." (this is so that the non-AP MLD knows the delivery time of group addressed frames and can make sure it is capable of reception at that time), or,
"An AP affiliated with the AP MLD shall not deliver group addressed frame(s) that are expected to be received by an EMLMR non-AP MLD on an EMLMR link, while another AP affiliated with the AP MLD is involved in frame exchanges with another EMLMR STA affiliated with the non-AP MLD."

The first option is probably simpler.

Regards,

Vishnu

From: Liwen Chu <liwen.chu@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2023 9:30 PM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] [EXT] [STDS-802-11-TGBE] Call for Submissions for next week TGbe sessions

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Hi Alfred,

Please add the following contribution to the agenda:

11-23-1541-00-00be-lb275-11be-d4-0-comment-resolution-subclause 35.3.18

Best Regards,

Liwen

From: Alfred Asterjadhi <asterjadhi@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, September 8, 2023 2:01 PM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [EXT] [STDS-802-11-TGBE] Call for Submissions for next week TGbe sessions

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Hello all,

I uploaded the latest version of the TGbe agenda for next week (here).

Please consider sending the requests for adding CR documents to the agenda as soon as possible and no later than Sunday EVE.

In addition, please upload the CR document at least 24 hours before the expected time slot for presentation.

Regards,

Alfred

Alfred Asterjadhi, PhD

IEEE802.11 TGbe Chair,

Qualcomm Technologies Inc.

asterjadhi@xxxxxxxxx

aasterja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Cell #: +1 858 263 9445

Office #: +1 858 658 5302

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