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Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] TGbf meeting on September 28 (Tuesday), 10:00am – 12:00pm ET



Hi Mengshi,

 

Thank you for the detailed clarifications. Yes, my first question was about the definition of CSI variation.

 

My concern is that, if the definition of “CSI variation” is implementation specific, the meaning of “degree difference” and mapping to the internal [0, 1] will all be implementation specific. This could make the threshold-based method less useful, especially when we need to consider the interoperability of devices with different implementations.   

 

In addition, without clear definition of CSI variation, I don’t know what “the largest (or the smallest) degree of the CSI variation” is. To make the threshold-based method meaningful, I believe it should be the theoretically largest value, rather than some value based on measurements. Otherwise, the feedback about higher or lower a threshold will not be consistent over time for each device. To deal with this issue, the definition and/or the characteristics of CSI variation may need to be specified.

 

Best regards,

Ray

 

From: humengshi <humengshi@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2021 2:11 AM
To: Rui Yang <Rui.Yang@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: 答复: TGbf meeting on September 28 (Tuesday), 10:00am – 12:00pm ET

 

Hi Rui,

 

Thanks for your comments. Please see the replies shown here:

Q1: Do you mean “the definition and the estimation of CSI are implementation specific”?

A1: I think here what you wanted to ask is the CSI variation, instead of the CSI, because we do not touch the definition and estimation method of CSI. The CSI is just the traditional one. If your question is on the CSI variation, my answer is: 1. The definition of CSI variation is not implementation specific (See A2 below). 2. The estimation or calculation of the CSI variation is implementation specific, but the final estimation result shall be in a closed interval [0,1]. This will provide benefits for the metric unification and the threshold adaptation.

 

Q2: What is the definition of “CSI variation”? From SFD, I see “The difference between the current measured CSI and the previous measured CSI is quantified. The difference is referred to as CSI variation.” Is this the definition? If so, what does “difference” mean here?

A2: This is not the exact definition. According to some discussions in the call, people think more details can be added to the above sentence. For example, one type of the CSI variation can be: the degree of the difference between the current measured CSI and the previous latest measured CSI. Another type can be: the degree of the difference between the current measured CSI and a marked CSI or the latest reported CSI, etc. Maybe the initiator can choose which CSI variation the responder should report. This can be further discussed. Regarding the word difference, I agree with you that this is implementation specific. If you think the definition for CSI variation shall clarify how to calculate the degree of the difference, my thought is that you can say it is implementation specific.

 

Q3: Is “CSI” defined in frequency domain or in time domain?

A3: Frequency domain.

 

Your further comments and questions are welcome. In addition, according to some discussions (people think it is a little bit confusing to say indicates a minimum CSI variation and indicates a maximum CSI variation), I update the 1st motion text (corresponding to the SP 1 in 1364/r3) to make it clear:

Motion 1

Move to add the following to 11bf SFD:

  • In the threshold based measurement instance, the estimation of CSI variation is implementation specific, but the estimation result shall follow the following rules:
  • The estimation value of the CSI variation shall be mapped to a closed interval [0, 1].
  • A larger estimation value shall indicate a larger CSI variation degree (strictly increasing).
  • The CSI variation of 0 indicates the smallest degree of the CSI variation (no CSI variation).
  • The CSI variation of 1 indicates the largest degree of the CSI variation.
  • Note: Which CSI variation corresponds to the largest degree of the CSI variation is implementation specific.

 

 

Best regards,

Mengshi Hu

 

发件人: Rui Yang <Rui.Yang@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
发送时间: 2021108 22:31
收件人: humengshi <humengshi@xxxxxxxxxx>
抄送: STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
主题: RE: TGbf meeting on September 28 (Tuesday), 10:00am 12:00pm ET

 

Hi Mengshi,

 

Thank you for posting the motion texts.

 

I have a few questions about Motion 1: Do you mean “the definition and the estimation of CSI are implementation specific”? If not, what is the definition of “CSI variation”? From SFD, I see “The difference between the current measured CSI and the previous measured CSI is quantified. The difference is referred to as CSI variation.” Is this the definition? If so, what does “difference” mean here? And, is “CSI” defined in frequency domain or in time domain?

 

Best regards,

Ray

 

From: humengshi <humengshi@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 2:02 AM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [STDS-802-11-TGBF]
答复: TGbf meeting on September 28 (Tuesday), 10:00am – 12:00pm ET

 

Hi Tony,

 

I also would like to submit 2 motion requests corresponding to the contribution 21/1364r3.

 

Motion 1

Move to add the following to 11bf SFD:

  • In the threshold based measurement instance, the estimation of CSI variation is implementation specific, but the estimation result shall follow the following rules:
  • The estimation value of the CSI variation shall be mapped to a closed interval [0, 1].
  • A larger estimation value shall indicate a larger CSI variation degree (strictly increasing).
  • The CSI variation of 0 indicates a minimum CSI variation.
  • The CSI variation of 1 indicates a maximum CSI variation.

Corresponding document 21/1364r3,  SP results: 14Yes, 5 No, 6 Abstain

 

Motion 2

Move to add the following to 11bf SFD:

  • In the threshold based measurement instance, the threshold to be compared with the CSI variation value is determined by the initiator.

Corresponding document 21/1364r3,  SP results: 16 Yes, 1 No, 6 Abstain

 

Best wishes,

Mengshi Hu

 

 

发件人: stds-802-11-tgbf@xxxxxxxx <stds-802-11-tgbf@xxxxxxxx> 代表 durui (D)
发送时间: 2021929 10:45
收件人: Hanxiao (Tony, WT Lab) <
tony.hanxiao@xxxxxxxxxx>; STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
主题: 答复: TGbf meeting on September 28 (Tuesday), 10:00am 12:00pm ET

 

Hi Tony,

 

I would like to submit 2 motion requests corresponding to the contributions 21/0876r3 and 21/1288r2.

 

Motion 1

Move to adopt the document (21/0876r3) as the official Evaluation Methodology and Simulation Scenarios document for IEEE 802.11 bf ?

Simulation is not mandatory for any contributions.

Corresponding document 21/0876r3,  SP results: 20 Yes, 0 No, 6 Abstain

 

Motion 2

l  Move to adopt Truncated Channel Impulse Response(TCIR) described as follows as one optional type of the sensing measurement results ?

Ø  Calculating the CIR (time domain) from CSI/CFR (frequency domain) through IFT(usually, IFFT) .

Ø  Reporting the subset of complex samples corresponding to the range of interest of the entire CIR .

Note: the size of the subset is TBD.

Corresponding document 21/1288r2,  SP results: 24 Yes, 6 No, 16 Abstain

 

Best wishes,

Rui Du

 

发件人: Hanxiao (Tony, WT Lab) [mailto:tony.hanxiao@xxxxxxxxxx]
发送时间: 2021922 13:55
收件人:
STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
主题: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] TGbf meeting on September 28 (Tuesday), 10:00am 12:00pm ET

 

Dear all,

This is a reminder and call for submissions for the upcoming meeting on September 28 (Tuesday), 10:00am – 12:00pm ET. 

 

Please note:

  1. Please send the agenda request at least 24 hours prior to the call, following the format below:

     DCN, Title, Author (affiliation), Time duration

  1. I will cancel the call if there is no request received 24 hours prior to a call.
  2. Please upload your submissions (revision 0) on mentor 24 hours prior to the meeting so that members would have a chance to review those submissions offline. Otherwise,

a.      If there is not enough time during the meeting, the presentation will be delayed to the next meeting.

b.      If there is enough time during the meeting, the presentation will be moved to the end of the queue and be presented in the end. However, any related SP should be delayed to the next meeting.

  1. Please send the motion request around 10+5 days before the meeting (for teleconference, not for Plenary or Interim meeting), so that the TG chair could send the 10 day advance notice to the 802.11 reflector, after getting the approval from the WG chair.
  2. Dial-in information:
    Join the Webex meeting here: https://ieeesa.webex.com/ieeesa/j.php?MTID=mf5bdea5afae40d28fd2004f2d7394bcd

Meeting number: 234 154 47759

Meeting password: wireless (94735377 from phones and video systems)

Join by phone: Tap to call in from a mobile device (attendees only) +1-408-418-9388 USA Toll
Global call-in numbers

Access code: 234 154 47759

Join from a video system or application Dial 23415447759@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx You can also dial 173.243.2.68 and enter your meeting number.

Join using Microsoft Lync or Microsoft Skype for Business Dial 23415447759.ieeesa@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Need help? Go to http://help.webex.com

 

Best Regards : )

Tony Xiao Han


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