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Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBN] MAC PDTs (2 PDTs): MAPC Signaling and Protocol Aspects, Co-RTWT Signaling and Protocol Aspects

Hi Jay,

 

Thanks for your email.

I made some changes to address both APs’ behavior in MAPC Discovery, and incorporated those in r6. Please see the upcoming email to TTT.

In practice I introduced MAPC Discovery Request AND Response frames (both can be BC or UC).

Please check out r6 and let me know if you have more comments.

 

Thanks again!

Giovanni

 

From: yang.zhijie@xxxxxxxxxx <yang.zhijie@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2025 12:39 AM
To: 00002b657bbbbed7-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: STDS-802-11-TGBN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBN] MAC PDTs (2 PDTs): MAPC Signaling and Protocol Aspects, Co-RTWT Signaling and Protocol Aspects

 

WARNING: This email originated from outside of Qualcomm. Please be wary of any links or attachments, and do not enable macros.

Hi Giovanni,

 

The following description in MPAC discovery procedure in 599r5 only caputure the responding AP behavior after receiving individually addressed MAPC Discovery frame, what's the expected behavior for the responding AP in your mind if receving a group addressed MAPC Discovery frame?

 

37.8.1.2 MAPC discovery

 

This subclause defines MAPC discovery procedures for APs to advertise and discover their MAPC capabilities and common MAPC parameters.

 

[CID147, CID148, CID1324 CID1398, CID3254]An AP may advertise its MAPC capabilities and common MAPC parameters bytransmitting a MAPC Discovery frame (see 9.6.7.x (MAPC Discovery frame format)) to the broadcast address, or as an individually addressed frame to another AP.

 

If an AP receives a soliciting individually addressed MAPC Discovery frame from a transmitting AP, the AP shall send anindividually addressed MAPC Discovery frameas a response to the transmitting AP. The value of the Dialog Token field of the MAPCDiscovery frame (see Figure 9-J1)sent as a response by the AP shall be set to match the value of the Dialog Token field of the soliciting MAPC Discovery frame. 

 

 

 

 

Thanks

 

Best Regards

 

Jay Yang (杨志杰)

 

 

Original

Date: 2025年04月17日 09:08

Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBN] MAC PDTs (2 PDTs): MAPC Signaling and Protocol Aspects, Co-RTWT Signaling and Protocol Aspects

[MAC PDT: MAPC Signaling and Protocol Aspects]

[MAC PDT: Co-RTWT Signaling and Protocol Aspects]

Dear MAPC and Co-RTWT TTT members,

 

Thanks for the additional feedback.

 

A new revision is on Mentor for the two PDTs (25/0599r4, 25/0600r4).

Please find the revisions here:

https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/25/11-25-0599-04-00bn-pdt-mac-mapc-signaling-and-protocol-aspects.docx

https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/25/11-25-0600-04-00bn-pdt-mac-co-rtwt-signaling-and-protocol-aspects.docx

(@Alfred Asterjadhi, please feel free to update the link on the TGbn agenda at your convenience)

 

@li.yan16@xxxxxxxxxx, your comments are now addressed in r4 to better align with MLO signaling.

@Shawn Kim, thanks for the comments, which unfortunately could not be incorporated in r4 for the time being (some may need more discussions), will take an action on this after the presentation.

@all, thanks again for the comments and suggestions.

 

Presentation of these two documents is scheduled for Thursday 4/17 TGbn call. After the call we can work together to resolve pending and new comments as needed.

 

Best,

Giovanni

 

 

From: Shawn Kim <shawn.kim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2025 3:25 AM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBN] MAC PDTs (2 PDTs): MAPC Signaling and Protocol Aspects, Co-RTWT Signaling and Protocol Aspects

 

WARNING: This email originated from outside of Qualcomm. Please be wary of any links or attachments, and do not enable macros.

Dear Giovanni,

 

Thank you for preparing the PDT documents.

 

I have a couple of comments on the MAPC PDT — please find them in the attached file.

 

Best regard,

Shawn

 

2025년 4월 15일 (화) 오전 5:40, Giovanni Chisci <00002b657bbbbed7-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>님이 작성:

[MAC PDT: MAPC Signaling and Protocol Aspects]

[MAC PDT: Co-RTWT Signaling and Protocol Aspects]

 

Dear MAPC and Co-RTWT TTT members,

 

Thanks for the feedback so far, which helped improving the quality of the PDTs.

 

A new revision is on Mentor for the two PDTs (25/0599r3, 25/0600r3).

Please find the revisions here:

https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/25/11-25-0599-03-00bn-pdt-mac-mapc-signaling-and-protocol-aspects.docx

https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/25/11-25-0600-03-00bn-pdt-mac-co-rtwt-signaling-and-protocol-aspects.docx

(@Alfred Asterjadhi, please feel free to update the link on the TGbn agenda at your convenience)

 

Please find attached the documents with my point by point responses to comments.

 

@yuxin.lu, as of now there are no motions for APs aligning P20s, and seems can be opportunistic (if you selected a ‘free channel’ you are going to enjoy that aspect, while if the P20 is the same MAPC schemes can help to improve the performance). Let’s revisit if more agreements are made on this aspect.

@li.yan16@xxxxxxxxxx, thanks for pointing this out. I did not address it in this revision, but I will consider for the next one. @all, please comment on whether this would be a preferable direction.

@all, thanks again for the comments and suggestions.

 

Presentation of these two documents is scheduled for Thursday 4/17 TGbn call. If more comments arrive before then I will try to incorporate them before the presentation, otherwise (e.g., if they come too late) we can work together after the presentation.

 

Best,

Giovanni

 

From: Tong Bian <tong.bian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2025 10:56 PM
To: Giovanni Chisci <gchisci@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; STDS-802-11-TGBN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [STDS-802-11-TGBN] MAC PDTs (2 PDTs): MAPC Signaling and Protocol Aspects, Co-RTWT Signaling and Protocol Aspects

 

WARNING: This email originated from outside of Qualcomm. Please be wary of any links or attachments, and do not enable macros.

Hi Giovanni,

 

Thanks for helping to prepare and share the PDTs.

I have added some comments on MAPC PDT for your consideration, and attached to this email.

Sorry for taking a while

 

Sincerely

Bian Tong

Panasonic

 

 

 

From: yuxin.lu eeluyx@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2025 7:25 AM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBN] MAC PDTs (2 PDTs): MAPC Signaling and Protocol Aspects, Co-RTWT Signaling and Protocol Aspects

 

Hi, Giovanni,

 

Thank you for sharing your nice work.

 

For doc 25/0599, Section 37.8.1.1, page 22 states：

[CID1788]The MAPC framework includes a set of schemes (Co-BF, Co-SR, Co-TDMA, and Co-RTWT) and procedures in which UHR APs operating their BSSs on the same primary 20 MHz channel coordinate to improve one or more among interference level, medium utilization efficiency, communication reliability, and latency. 

 

I completely agree that these schemes require APs to work on the same P20 as a necessary condition. However, there lacks evidence of how to achieve such a condition. It is highly likely that two APs configure different P20 when they perform channel selection separately. According to baseline (pls check REVme Section [Channel selection procedures], APs each choose the least occupied channel as P20 in order not to overlap. 

 

For consistency, I would suggest including a procedure or some description to accommodate the above issue introduced by the baseline rule. Thanks for your consideration 

 

Best regards, 

Yuxin

TCL Industries

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Gaius Yao Huang Wee yaohuang.wee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2025 8:52 PM
To: Giovanni Chisci gchisci@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; STDS-802-11-TGBN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [STDS-802-11-TGBN] MAC PDTs (2 PDTs): MAPC Signaling and Protocol Aspects, Co-RTWT Signaling and Protocol Aspects

 

WARNING: This email originated from outside of Qualcomm. Please be wary of any links or attachments, and do not enable macros.

Hi Giovanni,

 

Thanks for preparing and sharing the PDTs. Sorry for taking a while.

I attach the document including my comments for your consideration and action.

 

Best regards,

Gaius

Panasonic

 

 

 

From: GeonHwan Kim geonhwan.kim@xxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2025 8:53 AM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBN] MAC PDTs (2 PDTs): MAPC Signaling and Protocol Aspects, Co-RTWT Signaling and Protocol Aspects

 

WARNING: This email originated from outside of Qualcomm. Please be wary of any links or attachments, and do not enable macros.

Hello, Giovanni.

 

Thank you for your hard work in advancing progress on a variety of topics.

After reviewing [MAC PDT: MAPC Signaling and Protocol Aspects], I found some editorial changes and added some clarification questions.

Please find my attached file (*_GHKim).

 

Best Regards,

GeonHwan Kim

LG Electronics

 

 

WARNING: This email originated from outside of Qualcomm. Please be wary of any links or attachments, and do not enable macros.

[MAC PDT: Co-RTWT Signaling and Protocol Aspects]

 

Dear SunHee,

 

Thanks for your detailed comments. Will go through them and incorporate (target update towards the end of this week).

 

Best,

Giovanni

 

From: SunHee Baek <sunhee.baek@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 9:52 PM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBN] MAC PDTs (2 PDTs): MAPC Signaling and Protocol Aspects, Co-RTWT Signaling and Protocol Aspects

 

[MAC PDT: Co-RTWT Signaling and Protocol Aspects]

Hello, Giovanni.

 

Thank you for your effort.

I have reviewed the PDT for Co-RTWT Signaling and would like to provide some comments and questions.

Please find the attached file.

 

If you need any additional information about my feedbacks, please let me know.

 

Best Regards

SunHee Baek

 

 

 

From: Li Yan li.yan16@xxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, April 9, 2025 4:38 AM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBN] MAC PDTs (2 PDTs): MAPC Signaling and Protocol Aspects, Co-RTWT Signaling and Protocol Aspects

 

WARNING: This email originated from outside of Qualcomm. Please be wary of any links or attachments, and do not enable macros.

Hi Giovanni,

    Thanks for your hard work on MAPC topic.

    I have one comment for Table 9-K2 subelement IDs of the MAPC scheme subelement as below:

        In basic multi-link element of 11be ,we use link ID field to identify a certain link instead of subelement ID(i.e., subelement ID is always set to 0, see the table below ). When it comes to MAPC, we can reuse similar design: subelement ID =0 represents MAPC scheme Profile and add a new field(e.g., MAPC scheme ID) to identify a certain MAPC scheme

 

 

    In general, we can reuse the element design of the mature multi-link element for the MAPC element, and the relevant comparison is as the below table

 

 

 

Best Regards！

Yan Li

 

From: Jay Yang yang.zhijie@xxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 10:41 PM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBN] MAC PDTs (2 PDTs): MAPC Signaling and Protocol Aspects, Co-RTWT Signaling and Protocol Aspects

 

WARNING: This email originated from outside of Qualcomm. Please be wary of any links or attachments, and do not enable macros.

Hi Giovanni,

 

Thanks for your efforts.

 

See my comment on MAPC signaling in the attachment, welcome your feedback.

 

 

Thanks

 

Best Regards

 

Jay Yang (杨志杰)

 

 

From: Giovanni Chisci <00002b657bbbbed7-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, April 9, 2025 5:35 AM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [STDS-802-11-TGBN] MAC PDTs (2 PDTs): MAPC Signaling and Protocol Aspects, Co-RTWT Signaling and Protocol Aspects

 

[MAC PDT: MAPC Signaling and Protocol Aspects]

[MAC PDT: Co-RTWT Signaling and Protocol Aspects]

 

Dear MAPC and Co-RTWT TTT members,

 

I prepared two PDTs on:

  1. MAPC Signaling and Protocol Aspects (r1)

https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/25/11-25-0599-02-00bn-pdt-mac-mapc-signaling-and-protocol-aspects.docx

  1. Co-RTWT Signaling and Protocol Aspects (r1)

https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/25/11-25-0600-02-00bn-pdt-mac-co-rtwt-signaling-and-protocol-aspects.docx

 

The first PDT sets the stage for the second by defining elements, frames, and protocols (discovery and negotiations).

The second PDT uses the first as a baseline and further details aspects for Co-RTWT.

 

The PDTs incorporates the latest passing motions on the topic as well as addressing several CIDs, as reported in the Abstract.

 

The goal is to collect a first round of comments on these PDTs before presentation of the documents (@Alfred Asterjadhi, would target presentation as early as next week), and refine as needed after the presentation to finalize the documents.

 

If you have volunteered for the MAPC or the Co-RTWT TTT, please check whether your name/affiliation/contact is correctly included in the PDT.

If your name is spelled incorrectly, or is missing an affiliation, or has an incorrect affiliation, or if your name is missing entirely, or if you are in the list and do not wish to be included in the author list, then please send an individual email to:

gchisci@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Feel free to send any comments on the existing PDTs (i.e. the draft text, not the author list) in 25/0599r1 and/or 25/600r1 as a response to this email, so that all TTT members may see your comment and so that we can discuss the comment and then debate any changes to the document. This will be the general process going forward for text that is included in the document. To identify whether your email is for either or both of the PDTs, please add either or both tags at the beginning of the email, as shown in this email.

 

Thank you in advance,

Giovanni Chisci (QC)

 

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