Re: [STDS-802-11-TGM] Language: Ensure
--- This message came from the IEEE 802.11 Task Group M Technical Reflector ---
I think the "difficulty" in resolving this issue around the word "ensure" is
not trying to find a "better term" to replace it, rather coming to an
understanding of what the standard should be saying in the first place. By
that, I mean (as we all know) the standard should be clearly written so that
a device built to it will interoperate with another such device. That means
actions at observable interfaces should/must be conformant to the standard.
"Ensuring" that some assertion is "true" internal to a device is neither
observable nor testable.
Thus, if an observable/testable action is to be taken on some internal
state/condition being reached (like equality of the values of two data
object e.g. addresses), state it that way in the standard.
Is summary, I agree with Adrian (as usual:^)))!
RR
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ***** IEEE stds-802-11-tgm List ***** [mailto:STDS-802-11-
> TGM@xxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Stephens, Adrian P
> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 6:01 AM
> To: STDS-802-11-TGM@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGM] Language: Ensure
>
> --- This message came from the IEEE 802.11 Task Group M Technical
> Reflector ---
>
> Hello Hunter,
>
> > Is that the point of the proposed comment resolutions?
>
> No, it's not. I'm not proposing any comment resolutions yet. I'm
> getting feedback from the group
> as to whether they agree with my logic or not.
> If the group agrees that the changed text is equally problematic, then I
> guess we'll be looking for
> a volunteer to write a submission with alternative text.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Adrian P STEPHENS
> Tel: +44 (1793) 404 825
> Tel: +44 (7920) 084 900
> Tel: +1 (408) 239 7485
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
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> Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ
> VAT No: 860 2173 47
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: hunter [mailto:hunter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 3:38 AM
> To: Stephens, Adrian P
> Cc: STDS-802-11-TGM@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; hunter
> Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGM] Language: Ensure
>
> Hi Adrian,
>
> Your argument appears to be:
> (a) Use of "ensure" yields an incomplete requirement.
> (b) Suggested replacements of "ensure" -- "check", "confirm", "verify",
> "provide", etc. -- likewise provide incomplete requirements.
> (c) So we might as well keep "ensure".
>
> Is that the point of the proposed comment resolutions?
>
> This argument ignores two important issues with "ensure", and, if (b) is
> being claimed, casts aspersions on large portions of the 802.11 standard
> (but I won't worry about that for now).
>
> Important issues with "ensure":
> 1. "ensure" in English (at least American English) is much stronger
> (because it is 'absolute') than "confirm", "verify", "check" and the other
> proposed replacements. That is, "ensure" claims an absolute accuracy (in
> both time and space -- i.e., under all possible circumstances). But
> "check", "confirm", "verify", etc. do not. So, if any of those proposed
> replacements accurately states the desired specification, then the
> replacement is much better than the absolute claim.
>
> I agree with your point that the substitution of these terms does not
> provide complete specifications of all pertinent details. But that does
> not mean that substituting these terms won't improve the specification.
>
> Are these replacements more useful than "ensure"? Of course they are, if
> only because each is more precise than "ensure":
> - "Check" requires that the implementation incorporates a mechanism to
> evaluate something. If the replacement is "check", then a test could show
> whether or not the implementation actually evaluates the situation.
> - "Confirm" and "verify" do the same as "check", but also require that the
> evaluation results match a set of criteria. Then a test could show whether
> or not the implementation evaluates and finds predicted results.
> - "Provide" requires that a certain functionality exists after the
> implementation meets the requirement. Then a test could show whether or
> not the functionality that is to be provided exists after the
> implementation does the stated action.
>
> None of these terms, by themselves, create complete detail in the
> specifications. But all provide a basis on which details can be specified
> and valid tests can be produced. So all seem to be much better than
> "ensure" in a technical standard.
>
> 2. "ensure" is a term that is strongly discouraged by the 2012 IEEE Style
> Manual.
> Subclause 11.2.5 ("Absolute" verbiage) states:
> Avoid making guarantees if there is a possibility of unforeseen situations
> or circumstances altering an outcome. Review the text for any explicit or
> implicit guarantees made within the document, especially those that are
> safety-related.
> For example, words such as "ensure," "guarantee," "always," etc., should
> be modified, if they are inaccurate. Substitutions might include
> "maximize" or "minimize" or "often."
>
> In short, if you really don't want to make or demand an absolute
guarantee,
> then don't use "ensure".
>
> Conclusion:
>
> The proposed substitutions are both more conformant to the IEEE Style
> Manual and provide a better basis for additional detailed specifications.
>
> Thanks for your time,
>
> Hunter
>
>
> On 3/10/2013 14:23, Stephens, Adrian P wrote:
> > --- This message came from the IEEE 802.11 Task Group M Technical
> > Reflector ---
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > LB183 has a number of editorial comments on "ensure".
> >
> > For example:
> >
> > *comments*
> >
> > *Selected***
> >
> >
> >
> > *CID***
> >
> >
> >
> > *Page***
> >
> >
> >
> > *Clause***
> >
> >
> >
> > *Resn Status***
> >
> >
> >
> > *Comment***
> >
> >
> >
> > *Proposed Change***
> >
> >
> >
> > *Resolution***
> >
> >
> >
> > *Owning Ad-hoc***
> >
> > 0
> >
> >
> >
> > 1255
> >
> >
> >
> > 475.45
> >
> >
> >
> > 8.3.2.1
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Not only is "ensure" is not a good word in an IEEE standard, but it is
> > unclear what actions a MAC shall take to 'ensure' anything.
> >
> >
> >
> > Replace "ensure" with "confirm".
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > EDITOR
> >
> > The context is:
> >
> > "When a mesh STA
> >
> > receives a frame with the Address 1 field equal to a group address,
> > the mesh STA also validates the TA to
> >
> > ensure that the group addressed frame originated from one of its peer
> > mesh STA."
> >
> > My opinion is that the change of itself achieves nothing.
> >
> > I am willing to agree that "ensure" creates the problem of
> > "incompleteness".
> >
> > It is equivalent to stating: "A STA shall check if <condition> is
> > true, and if not shall do <unspecified stuff> to make it so."
> >
> > "Shall do <unspecified-stuff>" should be a big no-no in anybody's
> > book, even if Lewis Carroll wrote it.
> >
> > But the change to "Confirm", IMHO, carries exactly the same issue.
> >
> > "A STA shall check if <condition> is true, and if not shall do
> > <something>", because there is surely no point in checking something
> > unless there is some action taken based on the outcome of that check.
> >
> > The issue here is not with the particular word used, but the absence
> > of the unspecified text.
> >
> > So, the quoted text should, IMHO, read something like:
> >
> > "When a mesh STA receives a frame with the Address 1 field equal to a
> > group address, the mesh STA also checks whether the TA of the group
> > addressed frame originated from one of its peer mesh STA, and if not
> > generates a short burst of burned plastic smell."
> >
> > Do folks agree with this logic? I would like to establish the
> > sentiment of the group (e.g. mawkish, contra-Sisyphean)
> >
> > before writing a bunch of suitably sentimental comment resolutions.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Adrian P STEPHENS
> >
> > Tel: +44 (1793) 404 825
> >
> > Tel: +44 (7920) 084 900
> >
> > Tel: +1 (408) 239 7485
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------
> > Intel Corporation (UK) Limited
> > Registered No. 1134945 (England)
> > Registered Office: Pipers Way, Swindon SN3 1RJ VAT No: 860 2173 47
> >
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