Re: [STDS-802-11-TGM] GEN AdHoc - CID 183 (also 184 and 563)

Thread Links	Date Links
Thread Prev	Thread Next	Thread Index	Date Prev	Date Next	Date Index

Jon,

It seems that several things are getting mixed together here. I don’t have a position/suggestion… just confusion.

There used to be an explicit direct link that was not in the context of TDLS nor IBSS (nor some DMG thing). We made STSL (and therefore the DLS protocol) obsolete in REVmc:

“However, it is not clear the whole concept [STSL] has any value. It seems to be the terminology for the (non-tunnelled) direct links introduced in 11e. The tunnelled direct links introduced in 11z have their own terminology, including different SAs (TPKSA as opposed to STKSAs). The STSL SAs are incompletely specified (e.g. there are references to SMK caching but no actual words to specify it). Since everyone uses 11z TDLS and no-one uses 11e DLS, it seems simpler to just kill 11e STSLs.”
Add at the start of 10.7.1 General (in 10.7 DLS operation): “The STSL mechanism is obsolete. Consequently, the DLS protocol might be removed in a later revision of the standard.”
As part of this, we left the phrase “direct link” in the text, as a general term for any link that went “directly” between (non-AP) STAs, but it no longer meant “DLS” style direct links (STSL). However, if the group feels that this generic concept doesn’t add anything (and we can just reference the specific uses of TDLS and STA-to-STA in IBSS), then it’s probably fine to remove the “direct link” concept.

>> We already have the following definition for "direct link” … and DLS has been removed in 802.11-2020. We can drop "direct link" from the peer-to-peer definition.

So, why don’t we drop the “direct link” definition? Is “direct link” different than “peer-to-peer link”?
I do note, however, that DMG talks about direct link in the context of communication between two REDSs (see 4.3.23, 9.6.19.21, 9.8.3.1, 10.45, 11.34, etc.). So, do we keep the definition of “direct link” to cover this usage (only)?
Does that mean the DMG stuff is a “direct link”, and not a “peer-to-peer link”, so we don’t need to add DMG to the peer-to-peer link definition?

There appear to be very few uses of “station-to-station” left in the Standard, and all of them (except the one in the peer-to-peer link definition) seem to general English phrasing and non-technical. Should we remove “station-to-station” from the peer-to-peer link definition, also? I’m not sure what we do use for IBSS communication. Perhaps just “communication in an independent basic service set (IBSS)” is sufficient.
Also, some rogue “Direct Link”s appear to have stuck in 9.4.2.66.4, 9.4.2.67.4 (Peer-to-peer link event stuff) that seem like they should be replaced with some other phrase.

Mark

From: Jon Rosdahl <jrosdahl@xxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 5:01 PM
To: STDS-802-11-TGM@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [STDS-802-11-TGM] GEN AdHoc - CID 183 (also 184 and 563) - peer-to-peer link - definition

--- This message came from the IEEE 802.11 Task Group M Technical Reflector ---

Greetings,

From the 2021-05-14 Minutes:

1.9.5. CID 183 (GEN):

1.9.5.1. See also CIDs 184 and 563.

1.9.5.2. Presented two options. Second option does not include DMG case in the definition of peer-to-peer link.

1.9.5.3. Request for more time to review.

1.9.5.4. ACTION ITEM #3: Jon ROSDAHL: Send proposed resolutions to the reflector.

1.9.5.5. Move 183, 194 and 563 to Comment “Group Definitions Clause 3” and mark as Discuss.

CID 183 Comment: (p165.20)

"peer-to-peer link: A direct link within a quality-of-service (QoS) basic service set (BSS), a tunneled direct-
link setup (TDLS) link, or a station-to-station (STA-to-STA) communication in an independent basic
service set (IBSS)." is broken since there are no direct links other than TDLS and IBSS ones

CID 183 Proposed Change:

CID 183 AdHoc Notes:

GEN: 2021-05-13 13:11:44Z - status set to: Review
Similar to CID 563, 183 and 184
Proposed Resolution: Revised; Change peer to peer link definition:

Option 1:
peer-to-peer link: A tunneled direct-link setup (TDLS) link, or a station-to-station (STA-to-STA) communication in a directional multi-gigabit (DMG) basic service set (BSS) or independent basic service set (IBSS).

Option2:
peer-to-peer link: A station-to-station (STA-to-STA) link between tunneled direct-
link setup (TDLS) peer STAs in an infrastructure basic service set (BSS) or between STAs in an independent basic service set (IBSS).

CID 184 Comment: (p165.20)

CID 184 Proposed Change:

Change to "peer-to-peer link: A station-to-station (STA-to-STA) link between tunneled direct-
link setup (TDLS) peer STAs in an infrastructure basic service set (BSS) or between STAs in an independent basic service set (IBSS)."

CID 563 Comment (p165.21)

We already have the following definition for "direct link": "A bidirectional link from one quality-of-service (QoS) station (STA) to another QoS STA operating in the same infrastructure QoS basic service set (BSS) that does not pass through a QoS access point (AP)..." and DLS has been removed in 802.11-2020. We can drop "direct link" from the peer-to-peer definition.

CID 5653 Proposed Change

Change peer-to-peer link definition to: "Peer-to-peer link: A tunneled direct-link setup (TDLS) link, or a station-to-station (STA-to-STA) communication in a directional multi-gigabit (DMG) basic service set (BSS) or independent basic service set (IBSS).

If you have a preference for Option 1 or 2 let me know (highlighted in yellow).

Thanks,

Jon

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jon Rosdahl                         Engineer, Senior Staff
IEEE 802 Executive Secretary Qualcomm Technologies, Inc.
office: 801-492-4023                  10871 North 5750 West
cell:   801-376-6435       Highland, UT 84003

A Job is only necessary to eat!
A Family is necessary to be happy!!

To unsubscribe from the STDS-802-11-TGM list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=STDS-802-11-TGM&A=1

Re: [STDS-802-11-TGM] GEN AdHoc - CID 183 (also 184 and 563) - peer-to-peer link - definition