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Re: [STDS-802-16] Broadcast



The basic situation is this:
 
1.  The "Broadcast" connection that currently exists was intended for MAC
usage.  There is now way to indicate a user service over it.
2.  Multicast polling groups are just that, polling groups, not
connections.  The "CID" is a replacement for the SS's Basic CID which is
actually used in maps a a shortened SS ID rather than really a connection
ID.
3.  Terminals are unaware whether a connection is multicast or unicast,
with the exception of it having a different security association.
4.  A broadcast DL connection would be established today by setting up a
connection with the same parameters to all SS's.  It's data would need to
be transmitted in a region that all SS's could listen to, or be
re-broadcast to sets of SS's if no such region existed as could possibly
happen with AAS or DL OFDMA.
 
We should consider whether a true broadcast well-known connection would
be useful.  If so, I recommend putting it in 16e since it's an extra
feature.
 
Ken

________________________________________________________________________________
From: owner-stds-802-16@listserv.ieee.org
[mailto:owner-stds-802-16@listserv.ieee.org] On Behalf Of Pedro Neves
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 4:42 AM
To: STDS-802-16@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-16] Broadcast
The draft does not specify one broadcast and one multicast connection for
sending data from the BS to the SSās?
 
As Vladimir said, multicast polling groups are used, but what about data
transfer from the BS to the SSās? I thought CIDs were allocated for this
type of transmissions.
 
 
Regards,
Pedro Neves
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Pedro Miguel Naia Neves
Instituto Telecomunica^Ķ^Ūes - http://www.av.it.pt
Aveiro - Portugal
Phone: +351 234 377 900
Mobile: +351 96 618 75 82
Homepage: http://daidalos.av.it.pt/~pneves
MSN contact: etneves@hotmail.com
 

________________________________________________________________________________
From: owner-stds-802-16@listserv.ieee.org
[mailto:owner-stds-802-16@listserv.ieee.org] On Behalf Of Vladimir
Yanover
Sent: quarta-feira, 21 de Abril de 2004 12:06
To: STDS-802-16@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-16] Broadcast
 
Eyal,
Seems that the standard does not preclude from sending data over
broadcast connection. Another question is whether 
we may establish a service flow associated with  broadcast connection. I
think, we cannot, then there is no way 
for data entering CS SAP to be routed to broadcast connection.
By the way, multicast connections are not related to multicast [polling]
groups.
Vladimir
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Eyal Verbin [mailto:everbin@AIRSPAN.COM]
      Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 1:39 PM
      To: STDS-802-16@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
      Subject: [STDS-802-16] Broadcast

      Section 6.1 of the standard states that " In addition to
      individually addressed messages, messages may also be sent on
      multicast connections (control messages and video
      distribution are examples of multicast applications) as well
      as broadcast to all stations."

       

      Correct me if I'm wrong, but broadcast transmission is
      limited to MAC management messages (MAPs, DCD,...) and can't
      be used to transfer data. Therefore, the only way to
      broadcast data is to form a multicast group containing all
      SS's


      Eyal

       

       -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-stds-802-16@listserv.ieee.org
      [mailto:owner-stds-802-16@listserv.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Don
      Leimer
      Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 8:26 PM
      To: STDS-802-16@listserv.ieee.org
      Subject: Re: [STDS-802-16] Clarification regarding SS power
      level control

      Only one more comment.  The final 4dB of error will also be
      reduced by subsequent BS commands, and relative error
      diminishes to +/- 0.5dB for the final error (relative to the
      BS's capability to measure power)
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Raja Banerjea [mailto:RBanerjea@PROXIM.COM]
            Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 9:14 AM
            To: STDS-802-16@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
            Subject: Re: [STDS-802-16] Clarification
            regarding SS power level control


            The power control method is a closed loop method
            where the Base station asks for further power
            control corrections if required. If the base
            station requests the subscriber station in the
            RNG-RESP to increase the power level by 30dB the
            SS should increase it by 30dB with a relative
            accuracy of 4dB.

            If the Base station is going to increase the
            power of the SS in 5 steps and the BS requests
            the SS to increase the power by 8dB the SS will
            increase it by 8dB with a relative accuracy of
            4dB. In the subsequent RNG-RESP message the BS
            instead of requesting a power increase of 8dB
            will request for 8dB+(relative accuracy).
            Therefore after each increase requested from the
            BS the relative accuracy should be 4dB.

            This assumes that the BS can make an accurate
            measurement of the SS's power increase.

            Any comments ?

            Regards,

            -Raja

             
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Crozier, Eugene
                  [mailto:Eugene_Crozier@SRTELECOM.COM]
                  Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 6:26 AM
                  To: STDS-802-16@listserv.ieee.org
                  Subject: Re: [STDS-802-16]
                  Clarification regarding SS power
                  level control

                  My understanding of this is that the
                  step size should be greater than 1 dB
                  but less than 8 dB (I'd assumed for
                  the relative accuracy that the 50% of
                  the step size can be no more than 4
                  dB), but the number of steps is based
                  on the step size and the relative
                  accuracy to achieve the minimum
                  control range, so for 1 dB steps, the
                  number of steps can be between 60 and
                  20 (30/0.5 and 30/1.5) for a 30 dB
                  range, and for 8 dB step size the
                  number of steps between 8 and 3 for
                  the 30 dB range.

                   

                  Regards

                   

                  Eugene Crozier
                        -----Original
                        Message-----
                        From: Eyal Verbin
                        [mailto:everbin@AIRSPAN.COM]
                        Sent: Monday, April 19,
                        2004 8:22 AM
                        To:
                        STDS-802-16@listserv.ieee.org
                        Subject: [STDS-802-16]
                        Clarification regarding
                        SS power level control

                        Power level control for
                        the OFDM PHY is defined
                        in section 8.3.9.1:

                        " For an SS not
                        supporting
                        subchannelization, the
                        transmitter shall support
                        a monotonic power level
                        control of 30 dB minimum.
                        For an SS supporting
                        subchannelization, the
                        transmitter shall support
                        a monotonic power level
                        control of 50 dB minimum.
                        The minimum step size
                        shall be no more than 1
                        dB. The relative accuracy
                        of the power control
                        mechanism is +/-50% of
                        the step size in dB, but
                        no more than 4 dB. As an
                        example, for a step size
                        of 5 dB the relative
                        accuracy is 2.5 dB. For a
                        BS, the transmitter shall
                        support a monotonic power
                        level control of 10 dB
                        minimum." 

                        Looking at the SS
                        (subchannelization) for
                        example, it is possible
                        to go from Min power to
                        Max power either in 5
                        steps of 8 dB or in a
                        single step of 50dB. In
                        the first option the
                        accumulated offset can
                        reach 5*4dB (20dB) wheras
                        in the second option the
                        tolerance is limited to
                        4dB.

                        Does anyone have a more
                        clear interpretation of
                        this text?

                        Eyal Verbin 



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