Hi All, 
        I have a mild concern with bandwidths on the order of 
        20-40 MHz: 
1) What use cases drive this 
        need? 
2) Is there spectrum available below 3.5 
        GHz? 
3) Is 802.20 trying to compete with 802.16b 
        or e? 
No real heartburn on this, but just trying 
        to understand why. 
        Joseph Cleveland 
        -----Original Message----- 
From: 
        Jerry1upton@aol.com [mailto:Jerry1upton@aol.com] 
        
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 12:25 
        PM 
To: joanne@arraycomm.com; 
        M.Klerer@flarion.com; stds-80220-requirements@ieee.org 
Cc: joconnor@ipwireless.com; JClevela@sta.samsung.com; 
        scrowley@attglobal.net; Mark.Cudak@motorola.com; 
        imamura.daichi@jp.panasonic.com; Trinkwon@compuserve.com; 
        fwatanabe@ieee.org
        Subject: Re: stds-80220-requirements: comments on rev5 - 
        Channel bandwidth resolution 
        Joanne, 
Your proposal does add 
        clarity to the discussion. 
  
        
However, it is not clear that we have consensus 
        support. Though silence maybe consensus, it is useful to hear from the 
        earlier proponents of wider channel bandwidths. I have copied a number 
        of individuals who I believe were proponents. I ask them to give us some 
        direct feedback. If I have missed proponents or have missed stated their 
        positions, I apologize in advance.
        I do propose a change in your proposed in "Action 2" 
        4.1.4. 
  
You 
        proposed: 
"Additionally, requirements for 802.20 
        systems targeted for the larger allocation bandwidths (i.e. 2x10 or 2x20 
        MHz FDD allocations, and 20 MHz or 40 MHz TDD allocations) are presented 
        in [Section][Addendum] XX of this document.1.4."
        
My proposal: 
"Requirements for 802.20 systems applicable only to specific 
        channel bandwidths are highlighted and noted in each section of this 
        document. Unless highlighted and noted the requirements stated in each 
        section shall be applicable to all channel bandwidths and allocations 
        listed above."
        Rationale: 
Many of requirements 
        should be applicable to all channel bandwidths. If there are 
        requirements specific to the channel bandwidth, the proponent(s) should 
        highlight them. These could be for wider or narrower channel bandwidths. 
        It is much easier for the reader of the requirements document to 
        understand the differences versus referring back to an addendum. This 
        will also reduce any ambiguity between common requirements and specific 
        requirements.
        Regards, 
Jerry Upton 
        
        In a message dated 9/10/2003 5:20:35 PM Eastern Daylight 
        Time, joanne@arraycomm.com writes: 
        > Folks, 
> It appears that 
        there is consensus support for Mark Klerer's proposal 
> in his September 2nd email. To capture that in the 
        Requirements 
> Document, I propose the 
        following: 
>  
> Proposal: 
> Section 4.1.4 Channel 
        Bandwidth 
>  
> Current Text: 
> The AI shall 
        support bandwidths in multiples of 5 MHz in downlink and 
        
> uplink. 
>  
        
> Action 1: 
> 
        Change the title of section heading to: 
>  
>             
        4.1.4.  Support for different allocation bandwidths 
        
>  
> 
        Rationale: 
>  
> This seems to be more in keeping with this basic requirement 
        which is 
> to support deployment of 802.20 
        systems in different allocation 
> 
        bandwidths. 
>  
> Action 2: 
>  
        
> Replace the current text in 4.1.4. with the 
        following: 
>  
>  
> The AI shall support 
        deployment of 802.20 systems in the following 
> allocation 
> bandwidths: 
        
> +---------------------------------------------- 
        -+ 
> 
        |                                     
        |                                    
        |    
> | FDD 
        Allocations           
        |       2 x 1.25 
        MHz       | 
> 
        |                                     
        |       2 x 5 
        MHz            
        | 
> 
        |                                     
        |       2 x 10 
        MHz          | 
        
> 
        |                                     
        |       2 x 20 
        MHz          | 
        
> 
        +-----------------------+-----------------------+ 
> 
        |                                     
        |                                    
        | 
> | TDD 
        Allocations          
        |     2.5 
        MHz                  
        | 
> 
        |                                     
        |       5 
        MHz                  
        | 
> 
        |                                     
        |     10 
        MHz                  
        | 
> 
        |                                     
        |     20 
        MHz                  
        | 
> 
        |                                     
        |     40 
        MHz                  
        | 
> 
        +-----------------------+-----------------------+ 
> The individual 802.20 AI proposals may optimize their MAC 
        and PHY 
> designs for specific bandwidth and 
        duplexing schemes. Additionally, 
> 
        requirements for 802.20 systems targeted for the larger allocation 
        
> bandwidthss (i.e. 2x10 or 2x20 MHz FDD 
        allocations, and 20 MHz or 40 
> MHz TDD 
        allocations) are presented in [Section][Addendum] XX of this 
        
> document. 
>  
> Rationale: 
        
> This text captures the proposal put forth by Mark 
        Klerer on September 
> 2 addressing the 
        interests of the various parties in the discussion 
> about allocation bandwidths.  To remove ambiguity about 
        the specific 
> allocations for FDD and TDD 
        systems, they are listed in a table so the 
> 
        reader doesn't have to know that 2 x N MHz (FDD) is equivalent to. 2N 
        MHz (TDD) allocations. 
>  
        
> NOTE:  I am also proposing to add 5MHz 
        to the list for TDD allocations 
> since it is 
        not unusual to see allocations of this size for TDD 
> systems. Also, the text of the section or addendum related 
        to systems 
> for higher allocation bandwidths 
        should be proposed by the proponents 
> of 
        those options. 
> 
        %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% 
>  
> I hope this proposed text 
        is acceptable to everyone. 
>  
        
> Best regards, 
> 
        Joanne 
> -----Original Message----- 
        
> From: 
        owner-stds-80220-requirements@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-stds-80220-requirements@majordomo.ieee.org]On 
        Behalf Of Klerer Mark
        > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 10:18 AM 
        
> To: stds-80220-requirements@ieee.org 
        
> Subject: RE: stds-80220-requirements: comments on 
        rev5 - Channel bandwidth resolution 
> 
        
> 
> Proposal for a 
        Way Forward: 
>  
> It is becoming obvious that there are constituencies for 
        both the 1.25 
> - 5 MHz channel bandwidth 
        range and for the channel bandwidth range of 10-20 MHz. I would, 
        therefore, like to propose that we accommodate both ranges (see 
        below).
        >  
> I would, first 
        like to point out that when we were speaking about 1.25 
> and 5 MHz that is for paired FDD spectrum, i.e. the total 
        bandwidth a service provider will need is 2 x 1.25 and 2 x 5 MHz (I.E. 
        2.5 and 10MHz allocations). For TDD systems that translate to 2.5 and 10 
        MHz unpaired spectrum, respectively. (This is made clear in a footnote 
        to the Table in item 18 of the PAR { 802.20 - PD-02 } for the 1.25 MHz 
        system - the PAR table does not show the 5 MHz parameters). I propose we 
        stick with this convention of referring to bandwidth of the channel in 
        this way. This will imply that when we speak about 10 MHz and 20 MHz 
        channel bandwidth we are speaking about allocations of 20 and 40 MHz, 
        respectively (with TDD free to split this bandwidth 
        asymmetrically).
        >  
> I would like to 
        propose that we agree to the following: 
> 
        1.    Accommodate channel bandwidths of 1.25, 5, 10 and 
        20 MHz (i.e. systems requiring allocation of 2.5, 5, 20 and 40 
        MHz).  
        > 2.    The individual systems are 
        allowed to optimize their PHY and MAC designs for bandwidth and 
        duplexing scheme. 
> 3.    The 
        Requirements document either includes a separate section or we create an 
        Addendum that addresses requirements for the 10 and 20 MHz systems. [I 
        propose that we need to get some closure on the issues raised on the 
        conference call and prior e-mails as to, e.g. whether we envision this 
        to be used only for capacity increase (and CAPEX reduction - as noted by 
        Jim) or whether we (also) envision the introduction of new services that 
        require more bandwidth (as indicated by David McGinnis) so that there is 
        some guidance for the design of these systems].
        >  
> I believe the 
        above would allow us to move forward on a common basis 
> creating a specification (or specifications) that will 
        satisfy the various international needs for now and the foreseeable 
        future.
        >  
> With the 
        understanding that the 20MHz design will require an 
> allocation of 40 MHz I would be interested in 
        opinions 
> whether we already need to address 
        this at this time. 
>  
> Regards, 
>  
> Mark Klerer