TR: FW: [802.21] Comments on Ref. Model
On
behalf of Mathieu Péresse
-----------
Hi all,
sorry about not having taken part of the discussion
earlier...
Our General Ref Model (ref (1)) aims to be comprehensive and
simple, maybe at the expense of accuracy...
As Andrea says, this model can
be refined and adapted to show the real internals of one (or more) specific
technologies.
-> Answers from Kalyan's comments:
- compared to orignial figure, the
management plane is substituted with "Media Independent L2 Transport".
Management plane is technology specific and is already covered by the
respective boxes
[MP] The reason why we put a "Management box"
in the lower layers "metabox", was because each technology has its own
management plane, and
it was too dificult to make it appear on the figure. So
the layout means, the MIH can interact with the data plane of each available
technologies AND
with the management plane of each technologies... There may
be a better way to represent that.
[MP] I think the Lower Layer transport
and Higher Layer Transport boxes are not needed this the concept of "service
transport" is carried in the black arrows (L3 transport) and in the grey
arrows (L2 transport).
- The direction of ES, CS, IS locally
between MIHF and L2-Transport box is bidirectional. It is because, just like
higher layer, this transport is used to carry the information between the
peers. Since the L2-Transport box is situated in the terminal, it is local
communication between MIHF and itself
[MP] We wanted to show
that Events and Commands could be bidirectionnal, that means Commands could also
control higher layers and Events could be sent from an higher layer to the MIH.
This is going to be discusses in the comment resolution.
->
Answers from Ulises' comments:
1) Ref (1) shows the transport of MIH
services between Lower Layer at
the network side and 802.21 MIH function as a
local interface. However
there are other cases to consider. For example, in
ref (3) we show this
scenario as the collocated case. However we also show
that these
services can transported over higher layer transport or
layer 2 as
well.
[MP] OK, but that justs add complexity in the
picture.
Furthermore in ref (3) we stress that at the network side there
is
no direct communication between 3GPP/3GPP2 lower layers and the
MIH
function.
[MP] That's a valid point. Maybe we should clearly
isolate the 3GPP/2 world from the 802 world in the figure.
2) In ref
(3) 3GPP and 3GPP2 communicates toward a MIH Network Entity
using higher
layer transport. This is not described in ref (1)
[MP] In our diagram,
the MIH Network Entity is located in the Upper Layer box on the Network
Side.
But we didn't made any assumption on the kind of software entity that
was running there.
3) Ref (1) shows communication from MIH function
in the client station
to its peer at the Network through a higher layer
transport. This is
consistent with ref (3). Then the interface goes through
what it is
referred to as 'Higher Layer' before it communicates with the MIH
peer.
This is very similar to ref (3) for case where the interface
goes
through the MIH Network Entity (e.g., the Upper Layer being part of
the
MIH Network Entity). However the scenario where just a L3 interface
is
used to communicate between two MIH peers is not described. This
is
depicted in ref (3) as double-headed arrow that goes from MIH to
MIH
simply using a Higher Layer Transport.
[MP] Yes this is
described, but indirectly: you go from the MIH on the Terminal side, use the
"local interactions"
white arrows to interact with higher layers (for example
a Media Independent Measurement Report you want to send using layer 3),
then
this message is transported using L3 (the black arrows) and passed to the
network side upper layers, who pass it to the MIH entity using the "local
interactions" (white arrows).
Regards,
Mathieu
On 11/14/05, Olvera-Hernandez, Ulises <Ulises.Olvera-Hernandez@interdigital.com>
wrote:
f.y.i
Ulises
-----Original
Message-----
From: Olvera-Hernandez, Ulises
Sent: Monday, November 14,
2005 3:38 PM
To: 'Koora Kalyan Com Bocholt'; STDS-802-21@listserv.ieee.org
Subject:
RE: [802.21] Comments on Ref. Model
Hi Kalyan,
I noticed that
in the introduction you referred to two contributions
21-05-0413....(let us
call it ref (1)) and 21-05-0423..-(let us call it
ref (2)) where as I
understand you based the document for discussion. I
would like us to
consider also contribution
"21-05-0425-00-0000-InterDigital3GPPAmendments"
as it is addressing the
same issue (let us call it reference (3) for the
purpose of this
discussion). If we look at section 5.1.1 from ref(3), the
proposed
reference model is fundamentally the same reference model that we
agree
to use for our presentations to both 3GPP and 3GPP2. I find that
this
model looks quite similar to the one you are proposing except for the
following:
1) Ref (1) shows the transport of MIH services between
Lower Layer at
the network side and 802.21 MIH function as a local
interface. However
there are other cases to consider. For example, in ref
(3) we show this
scenario as the collocated case. However we also show
that these
services can transported over higher layer transport
or layer 2 as
well. Furthermore in ref (3) we stress that at the network
side there is
no direct communication between 3GPP/3GPP2 lower layers and
the MIH
function.
2) In ref (3) 3GPP and 3GPP2 communicates toward
a MIH Network Entity
using higher layer transport. This is not described in
ref (1)
3) Ref (1) shows communication from MIH function in the client
station
to its peer at the Network through a higher layer transport. This
is
consistent with ref (3). Then the interface goes through what it
is
referred to as 'Higher Layer' before it communicates with the MIH
peer.
This is very similar to ref (3) for case where the interface
goes
through the MIH Network Entity (e.g., the Upper Layer being part of
the
MIH Network Entity). However the scenario where just a L3 interface
is
used to communicate between two MIH peers is not described. This is
depicted in ref (3) as double-headed arrow that goes from MIH to
MIH
simply using a Higher Layer Transport.
4) You also indicate that
the management plane has been replaced by what
it is referred to as L2
transport and that the Management Plane is
technology specific and
therefore it is already covered in the
corresponding box. Here I have a
comment and a question: If it is
already included in the box, why would we
need to specify a L2
transport? Also from ref (1) the common layer 2
transport (or lower
layer) depicted in the figure indicates that both
3GPP/3GPP2 and 802
components used the same L2 transport, this is not
accurate.
Furthermore, we have discussed two different mechanisms to send
MIH
information both peer to peer and locally: 1) Over the management plane
(e.g.,through the introduction of a new an action frame format), and
2)
Over the Data Plane using LSAP (through the introduction of a
new
ethertype). It is not obvious how the "Lower layer Transport" transport
handles these two mechanism, in particular considering that
they
interface between the LLT and the MIH function is depicted as a
local
interface. This might be accurate for locally generated events but
not
for peer to peer remote events.
I have taken some of the
concepts that you introduce and they are now
reflected in a newer version
of fig.3 from ref (3). I added both
snippets from this e-mail and fig.3
from ref (3) to your document and
I'm sending it back attached to this
e-mail. I enabled change tracking
within the document, although changes are
quite obvious. Comments
are
appreciated.
Regards,
Ulises
-----Original
Message-----
From: Koora Kalyan Com Bocholt [mailto:kalyan.koora@SIEMENS.COM]
Sent:
Thursday, November 10, 2005 8:32 AM
To: STDS-802-21@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: [802.21] Comments on Ref. Model
Hello all,
after
going through couple of presentations/comments, we had
some internal
discussions on the reference model.
Please find our point-of-view in the
attached document.
This can be discussed in detail later in the IEEE
meetings
or on the reflector.
Awaiting your comments,
with
regards,
Kalyan
--
a+
thieum.