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Re: [802.21] Fw: [802.21] MRPM PAR: WG LB-3



Hello All,
I would like to mention a few things here:

During September Interim meeting, WG had very few SB comments to resolve and most of the slots were allocated for the Study Groups. Among them, DVB and MRPM PARs were important. While DVB SG finished their PAR and 5C on Tuesday, MRPM SG could not finish their PAR and 5C with two slots on Monday and Tuesday. An early WG closing plenary was discussed on Tuesday evening and my understanding was that WG Chair discussed with all the SG chairs before bringing the idea to the WG on Wednesday morning. Although MRPM SG had their third slot available on Thursday morning, it was mentioned that they may not be able to complete the PAR by that time. Moreover, I did not hear any objection either from the MRPM SG chair or from other WG members during closing plenary. Instead a motion for approving the MRPM PAR and 5C through a 15 day WG letter ballot was brought to the floor by the MRPM SG chair although there were some questions on PAR and 5C documents. The motion was finally approved by the WG members. It would be helpful if members raise their concerns during meeting time in case there are issues related to the meeting agenda. regards, -Subir


Behcet Sarikaya wrote:
A little correction.


Hi Vivek,
Going into Hawaii Interim the only major item in 802.21 was MRPM PAR. Without MRPM PAR Hawaii meeting would not have been complete. There was no justification for closing 802.21 early in Wednesday pm2 session. We do have a Vice Chair, if the chair had to leave early for whatever reason, the Vice Chair would have continued on Thursday and we would have finished all agenda items. MRPM will follow all means available to appeal the way LB3 was handled as well as how Hawaii Interim was handled. We will present all the evidence to IEEE SA management that is available to us and make our case. MRPM Chair will consult all persons involved in this matter to present the strongest case possible for MRPM, we had it enough. Does anybody know any other SG that had 24 or more approve votes other than MRPM? What is the reason for denying MRPM PAR to be sent to EC?

Kind regards,

Behcet

----- Original Message ----
From: "Gupta, Vivek G" <vivek.g.gupta@intel.com>
To: Behcet Sarikaya <sarikaya@ieee.org>; Peretz (Peretz) Feder <pfeder@ALCATEL-LUCENT.COM>
Cc: "STDS-802-21@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG" <STDS-802-21@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008 1:52:04 PM
Subject: RE: [802.21] MRPM PAR: WG LB-3

Some comments below.

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*From:* Behcet Sarikaya
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 07, 2008 3:49 AM
*To:* Peretz (Peretz) Feder
*Subject:* Re: [802.21] MRPM PAR: WG LB-3

Hi Peretz,
  Thank you for raising this issue. Let me complete Vivek's answer.
You were not in Hawaii so you have not seen what happened there. You were not in Denver nor in Jacksonville but that's none of my business. In Hawaii interim, probably for the first time in 802.21's history, the closing plenary was held in pm2 session on Wednesday.

*/[VG] For the first time we had less than five SB comments to resolve in the Sept meeting as opposed to 100s that we normally have. Most of the SGs were pretty light with their agenda as well and gave up their slots for Wed and Thu. As such we did not have agenda items for Thursday. All SG Chairs were consulted on this aspect on Tuesday evening and based on that the plan was to close at end of Wednesday. However when MRPM met on Wed morning (AM1), based on comments and discussion it was clear that they were not gonna get done with their PAR at Hawaii. As such in conjunction with key MRPM folks (and MRPM SG Chair) it was thought (during Wed AM1 coffee break) that a WG LB may be the best way to go forward with MRPM PAR. That would give them more time to complete their PAR with a better chance of success. MRPM did not express any interest in using the Mon/Tue evening slots that are available during interims as well. The closing plenary was subsequently moved to Wed PM2 session./*

We started Wednesday pm2 session as MRPM SG session. About 15 minutes later Vivek took over and ran the closing plenary. He is known to have gone to the airport Wednesday night. I have witnesses on this.

*/[VG] My own personal decision to get back to mainland US at end of Wed was not made until late Wed afternoon. I was originally supposed to leave on Thursday evening. The decision was made more because we had no agenda items for Thursday. As it turns out I did eventually leave Kona on Thursday./*

However, during the closing plenary, as Vivek mentioned below, the motion on MRPM PAR was accepted.

*/[VG] This was the motion to conduct a WG LB on MRPM PAR because the PAR was not yet done (and not to approve MRPM PAR as might appear)./*

MRPM SG met on Thursday to continue to discuss the PAR/5C. While other WGs were having their regular meetings, we could not because 802.21 closing plenary was already held. The meeting we held was then called an adhoc meeting in IEEE. After we completed the PAR, I put up the motion. It was dicussed and decided that no motion was needed because 802.21 motion for letter ballot was already accepted. So we unanymously accepted the straw poll and the meeting was closed. With this MRPM SG was able to submit its PAR/5C which is now being voted.

*/[VG] Even during the WG closing plenary there were no issues to closing on Wed evening. The reason why MRPM PAR has been in difficulty is partly because it started with another relatively different version in Hawaii and there were too many changes being made. Online editing did not go very well during Sept meeting. As it stands even now the PAR requires some more work before it can be forwarded to 802EC. /*

*/Best Regards -Vivek/*

----- Original Message ----
From: "Gupta, Vivek G" <vivek.g.gupta@INTEL.COM>
Sent: Monday, October 6, 2008 5:47:38 AM
Subject: Re: [802.21] MRPM PAR: WG LB-3

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*From:* Feder, Peretz (Peretz) [mailto:pfeder@alcatel-lucent.com]
*Sent:* Saturday, October 04, 2008 9:27 PM
*To:* Gupta, Vivek G
*Subject:* RE: [802.21] MRPM PAR: WG LB-3

Well Vivek, the notes clearly indicate that the SG was in an adhoc meeting and that the decision to forward the PAR by the SG was

a straw poll in the adhoc SG meeting.

*/[VG] I am not sure which notes are these. But as I pointed before this motion was approved in WG meeting./*

So I donʼt think the MRPM PAR was approved before the WG approved to conduct an LB.

*/[VG] There was a motion brought forward to approve the PAR in WG by a LB and that passed and hence this ballot is on./*

Peretz Feder

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*From:* Gupta, Vivek G [mailto:vivek.g.gupta@intel.com]
*Sent:* Friday, October 03, 2008 7:06 PM
*To:* Feder, Peretz (Peretz)
*Subject:* RE: [802.21] MRPM PAR: WG LB-3

Peretz,

The decision to conduct a LB on this PAR was taken during the regular WG meeting.

A motion was passed to that effect.

Further discussion on the PAR happened in an ad hoc group.

Best Regards

-Vivek

------------------------------------------------------------------------

*From:* Feder, Peretz (Peretz) [mailto:pfeder@alcatel-lucent.com]
*Sent:* Friday, October 03, 2008 3:40 PM
*To:* Gupta, Vivek G
*Cc:* STDS-802-21@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* FW: [802.21] MRPM PAR: WG LB-3

Vivek:

How can our working group consider PAR approval LB motion for a decision taken in an ad-hoc study group meeting that based the call for approval on a straw poll?

Am I the only one failing to see the logic and the process taken here?

Peretz Feder

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*From:* Gupta, Vivek G [mailto:vivek.g.gupta@INTEL.COM]
*Sent:* Saturday, September 20, 2008 6:56 PM
*Subject:* [802.21] MRPM PAR: WG LB-3

Multi-Radio Power Management related presentations/discussions have been going on in 802.21 for almost two years.

The MRPM SG was created in July-2007.

Motions to approve the PAR produced by this group failed on two occasions in Jan-2008 and in March-2008.

Thereafter this group has gone ahead and done further work. The latest PAR from this group is now available at:

http://mentor.ieee.org/802.21/file/08/21-08-0250-06-mrpm-par-for-mrpm.doc

Below are instructions for WG LB-3 which asks the question to approve this PAR and forward it to 802EC for consideration at the Nov-08 meeting:

http://mentor.ieee.org/802.21/file/08/21-08-0281-00-0000-lb-3-instructions.doc

Ballot opening Date: Sep 20, 2008

Ballot closing date:   Oct 04, 2008, AOE (Anywhere on Earth)

Best Regards

-Vivek