Re: [802.3_100GEL] Resolving Even-odd jitter comments

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First, the COM “script” is an implementation example of Annex 93A loaded with parameter specified in a calling clause. The COM “script” is not the standard. Parameters in the specified clause do not have to be exact replica’s of the device specification. It is possible that parameters are interrelated. It’s the job of task force to sort that out and recommend parameters to be used for channel compliance.

The comment below has merit. If there are interactions. 1) Are they significant 2) What values should be used for channel compliance.

… Rich

From: Anand Ravindran Nair Katchani <anandrk@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2020 5:05 PM
To: GMAIL Richard Mellit <richard.mellitz@xxxxxxxxx>; STDS-802-3-100GEL@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [802.3_100GEL] Resolving Even-odd jitter comments

Hi,

In COM script we input ADD SigmaRj and SNDR. Let us consider a case were there is thermal noise in the system, this will be superimposed on to the Tx output. Now this will be captured part of SNDR as well as J3u as well as Jrms. Since COM uses all these values, are impact of thermal noise (or any such noise) double counted?

Regards,

Anand RK

From: GMAIL Richard Mellit <richard.mellitz@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2020 6:36 AM
To: STDS-802-3-100GEL@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [802.3_100GEL] Resolving Even-odd jitter comments

EXTERNAL MAIL

Sounds like a more stable way of making a measurement.

But why are we measuring jitter? What problems are we going after?

SNDR contains a measurement of non-linearity. So as Bill K implied… Are we double counting?

… Rich

From: Mark Kimber <MKimber@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2020 6:51 AM
To: STDS-802-3-100GEL@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [802.3_100GEL] Resolving Even-odd jitter comments

Hi Rich,

I am not sure a 0-3-0-3… pattern would capture all transitions specified. A pattern like

0-1-2-3-2-1-0-2-0-3-1-3-0

Would capture all the transitions and is balanced. What I am not sure is if it would adequately stress the clock and muxing enough to show up EOJ properly.

Regards,

Mark

From: Richard Mellitz <richard.mellitz@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: 28 October 2020 17:51
To: STDS-802-3-100GEL@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [802.3_100GEL] Resolving Even-odd jitter comments

Warning - External Email

Would it be simpler to use a 0-3-0-3... pattern too?

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 28, 2020, at 1:22 PM, Ran, Adee <adee.ran@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi all

I’ve set up a call for tomorrow at 10 am Pacific to create a consensus proposal.

Since it’s not an official meeting I’m not sending it on the reflector. If you have not received an invitation but would like to join please respond to me (privately) and I’ll add you.

</Adee>

From: Ran, Adee <adee.ran@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2020 11:26
To: STDS-802-3-100GEL@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [802.3_100GEL] Resolving Even-odd jitter comments

Hi all

I’m sending this over the reflector to include people who have not been part of the discussion so far but may be interested.

We should be resolving EOJ related comments (48, 186, 189, 52, 187, 188, 127, 190) hopefully this week. We have seen presentations calvin_3ck_01_1020 and ran_3ck_01_1020 and had a discussion and some straw polls.

The straw polls results indicate support to the following ideas
Increasing the EOJ limit to 0.025 UI
Specifying or allowing a lower CRU bandwidth
Use the average of the 12 transition measurements rather than the worst case

The suggestion to use PRBS9Q or another pattern suitable for EOJ measurement (which would be the best technique to overcome the interaction between CRU bandwidth, pattern length, and other sources of jitter) had low support in the straw polls.

The combination of the 3 items above does not seem to provide a good enough solution:
Taking the average of 12 measurements instead of worst one may be a good idea by itself, but it does not solve the main issue – the interaction above can affect all measurements in a similar way and results can still have the same repeatability issues even with this change.
Using lower CRU bandwidth may work in some cases, but may close the eye (due to untracked jitter) and prevent accurate measurement in other cases.
Increasing the limit to 0.025 UI may not be enough if the variation between measurements is large, as shown in some cases.

I think using a shorter pattern is the key component required for solving this issue. Results in calvin_3ck_01_1020 (backup slides) show that measurements with “PRBS9Q” (although not currently defined in the standard) are more consistent than with any other method. PRBS13Q does not provide this consistency (for reasons that were explained) and there is nothing special about this pattern that requires us to keep using it.

Allowing shorter patterns (with adequate criteria) without specifying a single pattern, as in the text below, would be a relatively easy change and a good solution. It may be seem that allowing more freedom in measurements opens the door to inconsistency in results, but all measurements have a mathematical basis that should work regardless of the pattern – if the specific pattern affects the measurement it is usually a bad thing (as in this case). We may choose to add a specific pattern in the future if there is a compelling reason.

I would suggest the following as a response to the comments above:

Change text in 162.9.3.3 as follows
162.9.3.3 Output jitter
Output jitter is characterized by three parameters, J3u, J_RMS, and even-odd jitter. These parameters are calculated from measurements with a single transmit equalizer setting to compensate for the loss of the transmitter package and host channel. The equalizer setting is chosen to minimize any or all of the jitter parameters.
J3u and J_RMS are calculated using the measurement method specified in 120D.3.1.8.1. J3u is defined as the time interval that includes all but 10–3 of f_J(t), from the 0.05th to the 99.95th percentile of f_J(t).
Even-odd jitter is calculated using the measurement method specified in 120D.3.1.8.2 with the following exceptions:
The PRBS13Q pattern may be substituted with a shorter odd-length pattern that includes the 12 possible transitions between two different PAM4 symbols if it improves the measurement precision.
The corner frequency of the clock recovery unit (CRU) may be set lower than 4 MHz if it improves the measurement precision.
Even-odd jitter EOJ is the average of the 12 measurements defined in 120D.3.1.8.2 instead of the maximum.

In 120F.3.1.3, change the cross-reference for EOJ measurement from 120D.3.1.8.2 to 162.9.3.3 to incorporate the exceptions above.
In Table 162–10, Table 163–5, and Table 120F–1, change the value for “Even-odd jitter, pk-pk” from 0.019 to 0.025.

Discussion prior to the teleconference would be welcome.

Best regards

Adee
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