RE: Please help to clarify some things!
If the management is operating over a separate cable plant, why is it
relevant to 10GbE? It seems like we would need to add the necessary
management statistics (which we would need for any management agent) and be
done with it. I feel like I'm missing something...
Walt
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roy Bynum [mailto:rabynum@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Sunday, September 12, 1999 6:59 PM
> To: Walter Thirion
> Cc: 'HSSG'
> Subject: Re: Please help to clarify some things!
>
>
> Walter,
>
> You are correct. There are two different ways that element
> and network
> management of transmission systems is out of band. The first
> is the signaling
> overhead that is used for the transmission service. All of
> the WAN signaling
> from D0 to SONET OC192 have embedded operations
> support/network management in
> the overhead, separate from the customers data traffic.
> SONET even has a
> specific communications channel called the DCC. Apart from
> the embedded out
> of band operations support, all major network elements have
> an outside network
> management communications link, again operating out of band from the
> customer's data traffic.
>
> Thank you,
> Roy Bynum
> MCI WorldCom
>
> Walter Thirion wrote:
>
> > Roy,
> >
> > I'm somewhat confused by your use of the term "out of
> band". To me, out of
> > band means a separate comm infrastructure, i.e. a separate
> cable. You seem
> > to use the term to indicate management outside of the
> carried data, i.e.
> > management info in the header bits. Am I missing something?
> >
> > If it is in the same bit stream, but in the header as
> opposed to the data
> > portion, what is the advantage?
> >
> > Walt
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Roy Bynum [mailto:rabynum@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > Sent: Sunday, September 12, 1999 4:01 PM
> > > To: mick@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Cc: 'HSSG'
> > > Subject: Re: Please help to clarify some things!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Mick,
> > >
> > > I am not in any way suggesting a change in the way that
> IP based data
> > > communications systems change the way that they do network
> > > management. I am
> > > stating that it will not do for the carrier transmissions
> > > systems. Please do
> > > not confuse the separate issues.
> > >
> > > Customer Ethernet switches at either end of a WAN path will
> > > still use the SNMP
> > > network management that is so common. It may be that some
> > > transmission
> > > equipment vendors may even be convinced to provide some SNMP
> > > visibility at the
> > > 10GbE interface on the long haul transmission line
> terminating or DWDM
> > > equipment.
> > >
> > > The common service carriers will want to have something other
> > > than SNMP
> > > available for the equipment that they own, and the
> element management
> > > communications for that equipment will be carried out of
> > > band. This is a
> > > totally separate issue from the SNMP management of
> Ethernet switches.
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > > Roy Bynum
> > > MCI WorldCom
> > >
> > >
> > > Mick Seaman wrote:
> > >
> > > > Roy, I agree that standards that have been put in place by the
> > > > ITU/T1/BellCore people differ from those in the IP data
> > > world. I strongly
> > > > disagree that the IP data world does not provide an
> > > adequate framework for
> > > > providing commercial data services that the enterprises
> > > that use them would
> > > > regard as mission critical. So from my point of view I can
> > > fully accept that
> > > > a difference exists as a fact but I am not in the least
> motivated to
> > > > accomodate this difference by wrecking the very successful
> > > foundation that
> > > > we have in the Ethernet world, nothing that has been said
> > > convinces me that
> > > > the difference represents a necessity for change on our part.
> > > >
> > > > Mick
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-stds-802-3-hssg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > [mailto:owner-stds-802-3-hssg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf
> > > Of Roy Bynum
> > > > Sent: Saturday, September 11, 1999 2:06 PM
> > > > To: mick@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > Cc: 'HSSG'
> > > > Subject: Re: Please help to clarify some things!
> > > >
> > > > Mick,
> > > >
> > > > I am not complaining about unreliable network
> management for IP data
> > > > services.
> > > > I was writing about a requirement as part of the
> > > ITU/T1/BellCore standards
> > > > that
> > > > the network management messaging communications for
> > > transmission systems be
> > > > fully reliable. This is something that IP data people
> > > have not had to deal
> > > > with. It comes down to a simple distinction between TCP
> > > based messaging and
> > > > UDP
> > > > based messaging. It involves the standards for out of
> band network
> > > > management
> > > > on commercial transmission systems instead of the inband
> > > network management
> > > > standard that is used on IP based data systems. I have
> > > worked on both types
> > > > of
> > > > systems and services for years. There is a difference.
> I have been
> > > > attempting
> > > > to get the IP data people to realize that the standards
> > > that are in place
> > > > for
> > > > commercial transmission systems and services are different
> > > than those for IP
> > > > based data systems.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you,
> > > > Roy Bynum
> > > > MCI WorldCom
> > > >
> > >
>