RE: 3PMD Proposal is not enough
Carsten,
I agree that we should understand the customer motivations for the proposed PMDs on both single-mode and multimode fiber. My motivation for asking the questions regarding long wavelength (1310nm) optics over multimode fiber is because I believe that most of the PMD debate centers on how we can best address the short reach application space that is less than 300m.
I also feel that the supporters of short wavelength optics (850nm) have received significant scrutinization (fairly or unfairly) in the development process (the number of presentations on short wavelength technology outnumber the presentations on long wavelength technology ~2 to 1). There is no doubt that there are risks/benefits associated with each of the PMD choices (as with any new technology), both short wavelength and long wavelength. I also believe that is true with respect to technology, both serial and WDM. To the extent that each of us can help everyone understand those risks/benefits through presentations and discussion/debate on the reflector, our standard will benefit.
I would like to see our standard include solutions that maximize the potential market for 10 GbE and believe that the solution set should include both short wavelength and long wavelength technology to maximize that potential. To do otherwise will limit our ability to meet the 5 criteria highlighted below and limit our market potential.
1. Broad Market Potential
Broad set(s) of applications
Multiple vendors, multiple users
Balanced cost, LAN vs. attached stations
2. Compatibility with IEEE Standard 802.3
Conformance with CSMA/ CD MAC, PLS
Conformance with 802.2
Conformance with 802 FR
3. Distinct Identity
Substantially different from other 802.3 specs/ solutions
Unique solution for problem (not two alternatives/ problem)
Easy for document reader to select relevant spec
4. Technical Feasibility
Demonstrated feasibility; reports - - working models
Proven technology, reasonable testing
Confidence in reliability
5. Economic Feasibility
Cost factors known, reliable data
Reasonable cost for performance expected
Total Installation costs considered
Cheers,
Steve
> ----------
> From: Carsten.Schwantes@xxxxxxxxxxxx[SMTP:Carsten.Schwantes@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2000 10:10 AM
> To: SwansonSE@xxxxxxxxxxx; stds-802-3-hssg@xxxxxxxx; Jonathan.Thatcher@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: AW: 3PMD Proposal is not enough
>
> Steven,
> why do we still not see any discussion about Single Mode Fiber in this context
>
> Carsten Schwantes
>
> -----Urspr> üngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Swanson, Steven E [mailto:SwansonSE@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> Gesendet am: Samstag, 24. Juni 2000 16:24
> An: 'stds-802-3-hssg@xxxxxxxx'; 'Jonathan Thatcher'
> Betreff: RE: 3PMD Proposal is not enough
>
>
> Jonathan,
>
> This is a great set of questions but I would like to broaden the scope to also include the other PMDs under consideration by 802.3ae. I understand (I think) the motivation for 1550 nm since support of extended link lengths is desired but I am wondering if others could help me understand the following, specifically as it relates to supporting a multimode cable plant:
>
> 1. What are the motivations for customer choice of 1310 WWDM?
> 2. What are the motivations for customer choice of 1310 Serial?
> 3. Are they doing this to get greater distance?
> 4. Are they doing this because they believe that operating a 1310 WWDM or 1310 Serial system over the installed base of MMF is less expensive than another solution over new MMF?
> 5. Other rationale?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve
> > ----------
> > From: Jonathan Thatcher[SMTP:Jonathan.Thatcher@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Friday, June 23, 2000 7:21 PM
> > To: 'stds-802-3-hssg@xxxxxxxx'
> > Subject: RE: 3PMD Proposal is not enough
> >
> >
> > John,
> >
> > This is great information. Thank you.>
> >
> > What assumptions are used? What are the motivations for customer choice of
> > the new MMF?
> >
> > 1. Are they doing this to get greater distance at gigabit speeds?
> > 2. Are they doing this to improve error rates at gigabit speeds?
> > 3. Are they doing this because the new MMF is less expensive than existing
> > MMF?
> > 4. Are they doing this because they expect P802.3ae to adopt an 850 nm
> > solution?
> > 5. Other rationale?
> >
> > jonathan
> >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: George, John Emanuel (John) [mailto:johngeorge@xxxxxxxxxx]
> > >Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2000 2:21 PM
> > >To: 'stds-802-3-hssg@xxxxxxxx'
> > >Subject: RE: 3PMD Proposal is not enough
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >The previous message had tables that may not have been readable. This
> > >version is re-formatted.
> > >
> > >Regards,
> > >
> > >John George
> > >Lucent Technologies
> > >770-798-2432 (Voice)
> > >770-798-3653 (Fax)
> > >
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: George, John Emanuel (John)
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 5:58 PM
> > >> To: 'stds-802-3-hssg@xxxxxxxx'
> > >> Subject: RE: 3PMD Proposal is not enough
> > >>
> > >> Howard,
> > >>
> > >> Good question.
> > >>
> > >> The short answer is that there will be more than enough
> > >installed next
> > >> generation fiber to support the approximately 2 million Ten Gigabit
> > >> Ethernet Ports that Bruce Tolley projected will ship through 2004.
> > >>
> > >(http://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/3/ae/public/may00/tolley_1_
> > >0500.pdf).
> > >>
> > >
> > >Global MM Shipments (KMI view)
> > >2001 4,316
> > >2002 4,998
> > >2003 5,795
> > >2004 6,522
> > >
> > >% Next Gen MM of total KMI projection
> > >2001 10%
> > >2002 25%
> > >2003 35%
> > >2004 50%
> > >
> > >Next Gen MM FMM (Fiber Mega Meters) annual installation
> > >
> > >2001 432
> > >2002 1,250
> > >2003 2,028
> > >2004 3,261
> > >TOTAL 6,971
> > >
> > >Cumulative 10G ports supported by next generation MM, 0 - 300m
> > >
> > >(See assumptions below)
> > >
> > >2001 650,549
> > >2002 2,488,049
> > >2003 5,470,769
> > >2004 10,266,357
> > >
> > >Bruce Tolley (Cisco) Projection for Total 10 G Ethernet Ports
> > >(Bruce, I estimated these from your logarithmic chart, and
> > >apologize for any
> > >inaccuracies in my reading the datapoints)
> > >
> > >2001 10,000
> > >2002 200,000
> > >2003 800,000
> > >2004 2,000,000
> > >
> > >>
> > >> We estimate that between now and 2004 the installed quantity of next
> > >> generation multimode fiber will reach 7,000 FMM (fiber mega
> > >meters). The
> > >> vast majority of the next generation fiber will be installed
> > >in buildings
> > >> in links up to 300 meters. Assuming an average length of 170
> > >meters for
> > >> <300 meter links (based on the 7/96 IEEE survey), and
> > >assuming only 25% of
> > >> the fiber is lit, next generation multimode will be able to
> > >support over
> > >> 10 million 10 Gigabit Ethernet Ports by 2004. Even assuming
> > >that we ship
> > >> only half of the projected next generation multimode, a >
> > >conservative view,
> > >> we will be able to support 5 million ports.
> > >>
> > >> Bottom line: There will be more than enough installed next generation
> > >> multimode fiber to support 10 Gigabit Ethernet at 850 nm from 0 - 300
> > >> meters.
> > >>
> > >> On the installed base question in general, the global
> > >installed base of
> > >> all multimode by 2004 will be about 35,000 FMM. As of the 1996 IEEE
> > >> survey, only 20% of the installed FMM was in links up to 300
> > >meters since
> > >> most of the fiber was in the campus and building. By 2004,
> > >we can assume
> > >> the installed base up to 300 meters will grow to 40% of the
> > >total as fiber
> > >> grabs additional share of building backbones and FTTD grows. >
> >> >>
> > >> Thus, the installed base in links up to 300 meters will be
> > >14,000 FMM (40%
> > >> of 35,000) by 2004, and next generation fiber will comprise
> > >7,000 FMM, or
> > >> 50% of the installed base up to 300 meters.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Regards,
> > >>
> > >> John George
> > >> Lucent Technologies
> > >> 770-798-2432 (Voice)
> > >> 770-798-3653 (Fax)
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Howard Frazier [SMTP:hfrazier@xxxxxxxxx]
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 9:09 PM
> > >> To: stds-802-3-hssg@xxxxxxxx
> > >> Subject: RE: 3PMD Proposal
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> John,
> > >>
> > >> Can you provide some numbers to substantiate
> > >this assertion:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> >Please note that pulling new fiber is a small
> > >fraction of
> > >> the total system
> > >> >cost. Customers have already been installing the new
> > >> multimode that will be
> > >> >used today for 1000BASE-SX, and can be upgraded to
> > >> 10000BASE-850nm in the
> > >> >future. The bulk of 10 GBE port sales will occur after
> > >> 2002. By that time,
> > >> >there will be a significant and growing
> > >installed base of
> > >> the new multimode
> > >> >fiber.
> > >>
> > >> What constitutes "a significant and growing
> > >installed base
> > >> of the new
> > >> multi-mode fiber?"
> > >>
> > >> Can you show us a timeline, going out for the next five
> > >> years, with
> > >> your projections of the percentage penetration
> > >for the new
> > >> fiber in
> > >> both the horizontal and backbone applications?
> > >>
> > >> Howard Frazier
> > >> Cisco Systems, Inc.
> > >
> >
>