Matthias & Peter, thank you for your thoughts.
Matthias - please confirm, I think there was a typo – you wrote “From my point of view we have no the big chance to repeat this success story based on SPE if we complete the ecosystem for the SPE protocols.” Did you
mean, “we now have a big chance to repeat…”
While there are already 802.3 single pair standards for intrasystem, this begs:
- Distinct identity from 100 and 1000 BASE-T1 as well as 100BASE-TX. Personally, I think reach has to be enabling of substantial new use cases, and, related, but more important
- Technical feasibility of PHYs & systems for the targeted distinct identity reach. We have heard limited discussion on this. If Power is important to broad market potential, than
this needs to include the ability to transmit power.
- Broad market potential relative to powering requirements, and consistent with the copper diameter used in cabling.
For these, I suggest that those doing phy studies probably need to understand the gauge of copper that would be of interest at the reach. From what you say below at relative copper mass, I think you are considering something smaller than
20 AWG copper – since 2 pairs of 24 AWG needed for 100 BASE-TX and 4 pairs of 26 AWG have lower cross sectional conductor area. If this is true, It would also, I think, be important to consider the reach of 100BASE-TX on 24 AWG or 26 AWG copper as a competitor,
as well as the practical reach (not the IL limit) of 1000BASE-T on 26 AWG 4-pair copper. These are important for establishing the market potential, in addition to the phy complexity, and the level of powering that may be achieved.
These are all good things for the next stage study group to look at.
-george
If that is true, then the powering capability becomes paramount, and needs to be considered in both tech feasibility and broad market potential as well.
From: stds-802-3-spep2p@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <stds-802-3-spep2p@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Behalf Of Fritsche, Matthias
Sent: Friday, July 2, 2021 8:07 AM
To: STDS-802-3-SPEP2P@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Peter Fischer <p.fischer@xxxxxx>
Subject: AW: Discussion about 1GBit/s for SPE
Hello all together,
From my point of view we have already a wide consensus for 100BASE-T1L.
I like to add some points also for 1000BASE-T1L (min. 100m) too.
The big success story of Ethernet in the last decades is based on the typical 100m link segments and the availability of PHYs and devices supporting multiple speeds from 10Mbs up to 10Gbs.
The starting point of SPE was the global car industry with the special needs. From my point of view we have no the big chance to repeat this success story based on SPE if we complete the ecosystem for the SPE protocols.
But why SPE should be extended to 1Gbs with at least 100m link segments? Why not using the existing 4-pair solutions?
With SPE 1000BASE-T1L we can address a lot of new applications for Ethernet. SPE is perfect for all mobile applications with a strong focus on weight reduction, such as transportation (shipbuilding, railway industry)
and mobile machines. (See:
https://ieee802.org/3/SPEP2P/public/Fritsche_3SPEP2P_01_05122021.pdf)
Compared to the 4-pair solution, SPE requires a lot less resources (copper and plastic). A good solution for a green Ethernet solution.
We see a growing number of network connections and this is also an important point we should keep in mind.
Let us discuss this topics and I hope this idea for work on 100BASE-T1L and 1000BASE-T1L on one project found a lot of supporters.
Many greetings and have a nice weekend
Matthias
Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Matthias Fritsche
HARTING Electronics GmbH
- Senior Specialist & Global Product Manager
Ethernet Connectivity -
Marienwerderstraße 3
32339 Espelkamp - Germany
E-mail: Matthias.Fritsche@xxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.HARTING.com
Phone: +49 5772 47-9104
Fax: +49 5772
47-909104
Mobile: +49 171 3389010
HARTING Electronics GmbH | Postfach 14 33, 32328 Espelkamp | Marienwerderstraße 3, 32339 Espelkamp |
www.HARTING.com
Vertretungsberechtigte Geschäftsführer: Dipl.-Kfm. Edgar Peter Düning, Dr.-Ing. Andreas Imhoff, Dipl.-Wirtsch.-Ing. Ralf Martin Klein
Sitz der Gesellschaft: Espelkamp | Amtsgericht Bad Oeynhausen | Register-Nr. HRB 8808 | UST-Id Nr. DE815379587 | WEEE-Reg.-Nr. DE 48334311
Von: Peter Fischer <p.fischer@xxxxxx>
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. Juni 2021 15:49
An: STDS-802-3-SPEP2P@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Betreff: [EXTERNAL] [802.3_SPEP2P] Discussion about 1GBit/s for SPE[Avira checked]
Dear all
As time was running out yesterday, we could not deeply discuss our proposal (https://www.ieee802.org/3/SPEP2P/public/Fritsche_draft_objectives_longterm_3SPEP2P_06232021.pdf),
therefore as requested by George, we use the reflector. During the last meeting we have seen presentations focusing on factory automation. We completely agree that we need 100Mbit/s there. The length we suggest is 400m as there the ISO/IEC channel shows that
PoDL has already some restrictions with the current diameter, the thinner cable. In the presentation of Dieter Schicketanz (https://www.ieee802.org/3/SPEP2P/public/ISOchannelsJune%2021-schicketanz.pdf)
we can find a short summary about the channels/ link segments and a picture showing the difference between the two cable types currently under development at IEC.
The idea for 100Mbit/s is too short term for us. IEEE is not only making applications for factory automation but for many other industries too. Therefore, we need 1Gbit/s for industries like:
- Railway and Transportation
- Robotic
- Building automation
IEEE needs to look also into IIoT and IoT which is expected to be in the range of billions of devices. If we miss this opportunity now, we will lose large sections of these industries which can give us all a second wave
of success as seen in the late 90ties and 2000 years, where applications in a similar range were developed for 4 pairs with a lot of success.
In the case we do not start to work on 1Gbit/s now we expect that much will be lost to a bunch of wireless and other applications. Please keep in mind, the development of such applications will take 2 years and till we
will see active components it can take some more time. Devices might be available in 2025. For future SPE applications we should not preclude even higher data rates. Our proposal included autonegotiation between all speeds from 10Mbit/s up to 1Gbit/s as this
will increase the market success as entering at any level is future proof.
We want to hear your thoughts about this idea and discuss with you how it can be realised to bring profit to all working in these fields.
Best regards
Peter Fischer
Head Business Solution & Innovation
Tel.:
+41 32 681 54 54
Direkt:
+41 32 681 54 56
Email:
p.fischer@xxxxxx
BKS Kabel-Service AG
Fabrikstrasse 8
4552 Derendingen
Schweiz
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