RE: [10GBASE-CX4] S-param characterization of the cable

["DOVE,DANIEL J (HP-Roseville,ex1)" <dan.dove@hp.com>]

Jim,

Regarding your question of mandated mapping... I believe that we
should spec the parameters and leave it to the implementer to figure
out how to measure it.

We don't mandate measurement methods typically and this is good
because it would potentially constrain implementations if we did.


Regards,

Dan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nadolny, Jim [mailto:JNadolny@fciconnect.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 8:33 AM
> To: Oleynick, Gary; 'Zhi Wong'; 'DOVE,DANIEL J (HP-Roseville,ex1)';
> 'Liu, Howard'; '10GBASE-CX4 (E-mail)'
> Subject: RE: [10GBASE-CX4] S-param characterization of the cable
> 
> 
> Gary,
> 
> Using the 4 port VNA from Agilent we have ports 1 and 2 as 
> inputs and ports
> 4 and 3 as outputs.  The through measurements are 1 to 4 and 
> 2 to 3.  The
> mode conversion equations built into the Agilent software assume this
> configuration when it derives the mixed mode S-parameters.  Using this
> instrument it is most efficient to simply follow their convention.
> 
> We can re-map the ports so that a more academic (and logical) 
> convention is
> followed.  In data that I provide I try to define the port 
> convention so
> that the user can re-map if they want to.  This requires the user to
> actually read the comments in the Touchstone file to understand the
> convention.  I have seen other mappings as well (1 and 2 are 
> inputs and 3
> and 4 are outputs, S13 and S24 are the through connections) so until a
> standard is applied, I will include a port description in the 
> comment line.
> 
> Dan - For 10 GBE work it would make sense to mandate a standard port
> mapping.  The 1-2-4-3 mapping is easiest for me but the 
> 1-3-2-4 or 1-2-3-4
> are more logical.
> 
> regards,
> Jim N
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Oleynick, Gary 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 11:20 AM
> To: 'Zhi Wong'; DOVE,DANIEL J (HP-Roseville,ex1); Liu, 
> Howard; Oleynick,
> Gary; 10GBASE-CX4 (E-mail); Nadolny, Jim
> Subject: RE: [10GBASE-CX4] S-param characterization of the cable
> 
> 
> Jim,
> 
> How should we respond to this request?
> 
> Gary 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Zhi Wong [mailto:zwong@altera.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 8:43 PM
> To: DOVE,DANIEL J (HP-Roseville,ex1); Liu, Howard; Oleynick, Gary;
> 10GBASE-CX4 (E-mail)
> Subject: RE: [10GBASE-CX4] S-param characterization of the cable
> 
> 
> Dan/Howard/Gary,
> 
> I would suggest taking 4-port S-Parameter measurements.
> (Ports 1 and 3 on the left of the network)
> (Ports 2 and 4 on the right of the network)
> 
> This would be consistent with some OIF standards like CEI and XFP.
> 
> Zhi
> Altera Corporation
> San Jose, CA
> USA
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DOVE,DANIEL J (HP-Roseville,ex1) [mailto:dan.dove@hp.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 4:45 PM
> To: 'Liu, Howard'; 'Oleynick, Gary'; 10GBASE-CX4 (E-mail)
> Subject: RE: [10GBASE-CX4] S-param characterization of the cable
> 
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> For those who are observing this conversation, the data Gary sent
> exceeded the 100K maximum size limit for the reflector. As a result,
> only those directly addressed received the file.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Dan Dove
> Chair, 802.3ak
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Liu, Howard [mailto:howard.liu@ti.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 4:26 PM
> > To: 'Oleynick, Gary'; 10GBASE-CX4 (E-mail)
> > Subject: RE: [10GBASE-CX4] S-param characterization of the cable
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Gary,
> > This is a complete measurement, the format is good, I can
> > convert single
> > ended data to differential data. Do you have the rest of the 
> > measurements.
> > This is for the test fixture only.
> > 
> > Thanks!
> > 
> > howard liu
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Oleynick, Gary [mailto:GOleynick@fciconnect.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 6:16 PM
> > To: Liu, Howard; Oleynick, Gary; 10GBASE-CX4 (E-mail)
> > Subject: RE: [10GBASE-CX4] S-param characterization of the cable
> > 
> > 
> > Howard,
> > 
> > Does this help?
> > 
> > Gary
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Liu, Howard [mailto:howard.liu@ti.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 4:08 PM
> > To: 'Oleynick, Gary'; 10GBASE-CX4 (E-mail)
> > Subject: RE: [10GBASE-CX4] S-param characterization of the cable
> > 
> > 
> > Gary,
> > Thanks again, I looked into the files, looks like that it 
> only has the
> 
> > amplitude measurements in dBs, I need its phase measurements too if 
> > you have them.
> > 
> > Thanks!
> > 
> > howard
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Oleynick, Gary [mailto:GOleynick@fciconnect.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 5:02 PM
> > To: Liu, Howard; 'DOVE,DANIEL J (HP-Roseville,ex1)'; 10GBASE-CX4
> > (E-mail)
> > Cc: Oleynick, Gary
> > Subject: RE: [10GBASE-CX4] S-param characterization of the cable
> > 
> > 
> > Howard,
> > 
> > Attached is FCI's S-parameter data on the 10 and 15 meter
> > cable assembly
> > lengths.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Gary
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Liu, Howard [mailto:howard.liu@ti.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 2:31 PM
> > To: 'DOVE,DANIEL J (HP-Roseville,ex1)'; 10GBASE-CX4 (E-mail)
> > Subject: [10GBASE-CX4] S-param characterization of the cable
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Hi,
> > Do we have an exist measurement of the channel (cable) from 
> > TP1 to TP4 with
> > FEXT and NEXT included? It can be in any format. 
> > 
> > Thanks!
> > 
> > 
> > Howard Liu
> > 
> > Texas Intruments
> > 214 480 7678
> > 
>