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Re: [BP] proposed channel model change



rich,

I looked at how the proposed spec treated: 8 peters channels, 8 Molex 
channels, and 7 Tyco channels,
all we currently have in the IEEE802.3ap data base. Only 1, Tyco Case3, 
would fail the 1000BASE-KX
spec as i am proposing it. Could you re-check your figures?

charles

BTW: I have changed my email address, if you keep a file of addresses 
you should update it.
Mellitz, Richard wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> When I talked to Charles I said this seemed to have promise because 
> the Goergen line has as strong sqrt(f) dependence and low frequencies. 
> It has basis in the skin loss physics. This would mostly affect KX 
> which we really didn't spend much time on. After all we just changed 
> the ICR fit line. However, I made these comments without really taking 
> a close look at our data. Isn't theory grand... J
>
> Since then I did look at the data. I had Steve Krooswyk alter the 
> spreadsheet s-parameter analysis tool (SCAT) to look at this new fit. 
> What I discovered was that it actually makes many channels appear much 
> worse. After further review of the data I think we could do much 
> better by just changing the confidence region lines for KX only. 
> However, I think the data needs to be presented and then we, as 
> working group, can determine a plan of action.
>
> …Rich Mellitz, Intel Corporation
>
> 803-216-2160 (o)
>
> 803-873-7343 (m)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles Moore [mailto:charles_moore@agilent.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 1:11 PM
> To: STDS-802-3-BLADE@listserv.ieee.org
> Subject: [BP] proposed channel model change
>
> guys,
>
> Rich Mellitz and i have been discussing changing the channel model,
>
> to use a fit to Amax, as we are now doing for the interference tolerance
>
> test channel (see moore_03_1105.pdf), instead of a fit to a straight line.
>
> This would have several advantages:
>
> 1. It would use a common method for both the test channel and the
>
> working channel
>
> 2. It would allow us to replace three graphical tests:
>
> i. That the linear fit is better than Amax
>
> ii. That the insertion loss is always better than Amax + something
>
> iii. That the ripple is better than something
>
> with one numeric test, that mc < 1.0, and the graphical ripple
>
> test. We may need an additional limit on bc.
>
> 3. Since the fit to Amax will be substantially better than the fit
>
> to a straight line, the ripple will be smaller and more meaningful.
>
> This will reduce the number of false fails. We should be able
>
> to shrink the ripple bounds (Rich: will you figure out by how
>
> much?) which may also reduce false passes.
>
> 4. Since the fit will be especially improved at low frequency, we
>
> will be able to reduce f1, especially for 10GBASE-KR, which
>
> actually uses low frequencies more than either 1000BASE-KX or
>
> 10GBASE-KX4.
>
> Does anyone see any problems with this proposal?
>
> charles
>
> -- 
>
> |--------------------------------------------------------------------|
>
> | Charles Moore
>
> | Agilent Technologies
>
> | ASIC Products Division
>
> | charles_moore@agilent.com
>
> | (970) 288-4561
>
> |--------------------------------------------------------------------|
>


-- 
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
|       Charles Moore 
|       Avago Technologies
|       ASIC Products Division
|       charles_moore@agilent.com
|       (970) 288-4561
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|

  IEEE802.3ap channels run through proposed channel spec for 1000BASE-KX
    channel                                 Mcc     Bcc    max |ILD|
peters_01_0605_B12_thru.s4p                0.551  -0.41dB   0.086dB
peters_01_0605_B1_thru.s4p                 0.368  -0.29dB   0.072dB
peters_01_0605_B20_thru.s4p                0.687  -0.46dB   0.086dB
peters_01_0605_M1_thru.s4p                 0.372  -0.18dB   0.030dB
peters_01_0605_M20_thru.s4p                0.719  -0.49dB   0.179dB
peters_01_0605_T12_thru.s4p                0.585  -0.54dB   0.229dB
peters_01_0605_T1_thru.s4p                 0.358  -0.21dB   0.095dB
peters_01_0605_T20_thru.s4p                0.723  -0.61dB   0.211dB
1m_INBOUND_TRU/sj2k2g2h2_SPARS.s4p         0.946  -0.89dB   0.225dB
1m_INBOUND_TRU/sj3k3g3h3_SPARS.s4p         0.951  -0.91dB   0.292dB
1m_INBOUND_TRU/sj4k4g4h4_SPARS.s4p         0.953  -0.92dB   0.336dB
1m_INBOUND_TRU/sj5k5g5h5_SPARS.s4p         0.956  -0.94dB   0.378dB
1m_OUTBOUND_TRU/sj2k2g2h2_SPARS.s4p        0.933  -0.86dB   0.163dB
1m_OUTBOUND_TRU/sj3k3g3h3_SPARS.s4p        0.941  -0.92dB   0.173dB
1m_OUTBOUND_TRU/sj4k4g4h4_SPARS.s4p        0.937  -0.90dB   0.174dB
1m_OUTBOUND_TRU/sj5k5g5h5_SPARS.s4p        0.937  -0.91dB   0.165dB
Case #1/Case1 FM 13SI 20 T D13SI L10.s4p   0.943  -0.52dB   0.206dB
Case #2/Case2 FM 13SI 20 T D13 L10.s4p     0.975  -0.55dB   0.271dB
Case #3/Case3 FM 13SI 20 T D6 L10.s4p      1.092  -0.67dB   0.344dB
Case #4/Case4 FM 13SI 20 T D13 L6.s4p      0.794  -0.43dB   0.260dB
Case #5/Case5 DS 13 10 T D13 L6.s4p        0.536  -0.27dB   0.149dB
Case #6/Case6 DS 13 10 T D13 L6.s4p        0.541  -0.34dB   0.184dB
Case #7/Case7 FM 13SI 1 T D13SI L6.s4p     0.327  -0.18dB   0.057dB

Proposed spec:  Mcc < 1.0, Bcc: no spec but smaller is better, 
max |ILD|:  1.0dB at DC going to 1.625dB at F2.