Re: [8023-CMTF] May meeting materials uploaded
Title: Message
Larry,
 
Sorry, I wasn't very clear on the last 
email.
Thanks for the quick response; its helps to 
correct
my misspeaks early.
 
What I meant to describe was the activity on a 
full-duplex
Ethernet link, but I used the unfortunate PHY 
notation,
with unintended implications of buffers 
therein.
 
I intended to refer to the operation 
of:
  1) Send your frame to the 
bridge.
  2) Get back a NACK or ACK.
  3) If a NACK is returned, then repeat from 
(1).
 
Of course, one wouldn't require ACK/NACK unless 
this
were desired to be a loss-less frame 
transmission.
 
This does indeed require some sort of staging 
buffer,
and possibly something to ensure the 
retry-after-NACK
success.
 
To constrain the staging buffer sizes, this 
is
mostly likely only applicable to the 
backplane
and/or computer room. Its also 
counter-productive
for most flows (I suspect), but possibly 
valuable
for critical controls and/or triggers in 
the
processor-cluster type of 
environments.
 
The staging buffer would be somewhere above the 
PHY.
I tend to prefer the MAC, but I suspect one 
could
also argue for the Client or a shim. For the 
moment,
I prefer to abstain from the "it goes here" 
arguments,
in favor of "does it work" or "does it help" 
emails.
 
The lossless benefits are not obtained 
with
bridge ports connecting to half-duplex or 
CSMACD
Ethernet, but nothing breaks and there 
aren't
too many of these.
 
Hope this helps clarify the intent.
 
Cheers,
DVJ 
  
  David,
   
  If 
  one were to speculate on the PHY handling ack/nack, then one might have to 
  also speculate on how much buffering is going on in the 
  PHY.
   
  -Larry
  
    
    
    Kevin (et. al.),
     
    Its interesting that Hugh is considering ACK/NACK 
    at the
    MAC interface level.
     
    One might speculate that is also appropriate at 
    the
    PHY-to-PHY level, rather than PAUSE. It then 
    gives
    the sender the options of sending other 
    frames
    (possibly even of the same priority), rather 
    than
    blocking when only one switch output queue 
    becomes
    full.
     
    That's closer to the bus backplane model, and 
    only
    really useful within the backplane 
    environment
    (or possibly computer room, as long as the 
    cable
    is only a few frames long).
     
    Probably works OK in that environment, 
    though.
     
    DVJ
    
    
      
      All,
       
      The materials 
      for the 802.3ar Congestion Management Task Force May interim meeting have 
      been uploaded. The URL is included below for 
      convenience:
       
      
       
       
      You will find 
      that Hugh Barrass has submitted two presentations. In addition, three 
      presentations are included from last week's IEEE 802.1 interim meeting in 
      Berlin. Hugh has been given permission by the respective author's to 
      present/review/highlight during our meeting in Austin.
       
      As chair, I 
      will structure the meeting so we spend the majority of time trying to 
      satisfy the TF objectives we've established and have committed to 802.3 WG 
      we'd deliver on. 
       
      Hope to see 
      you in Austin.
       
       
       
      Kevin 
      Daines
      Chair, 
      P802.3ar 
TF