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[802.3EEESG] Comments on our work from Vern Paxson



Folks,

I asked Vern, who is well known for his work on TCP, to take a look at 
our work and comment on it.  Please see his comments below.  He has 
joined the reflector so I encourage you to ask him questions if you have 
any.  BTW, outage means packet loss.

Regards,

Mike

Here are my thoughts:

	- An outage on the scale of 10s of msec is really no big deal
	  other than for flows that want to go super fast.

	- Presumably, such outages are rare (e.g., a few an hour).  If that's
	  right, then the likelihood of one of these coinciding with a
	  super-fast flow will generally be quite rare, though obviously
	  in some environments this might not be the case.

	- In addition, I'd think that one would use such bandwidth-switching
	  in conjunction with network conditions of light load (at least,
	  when switching to lower bandwidth), which should make a collision
	  with a super-fast flow even less likely.

	- The one case of mild worry is an outage during a switch to
	  higher-bandwidth, because it's a fast flow that's motivating
	  the decision to go for higher-speed operation.

	- My mental model is that in LANs, s**t happens anyway, i.e.,
	  it wouldn't surprise me that a few equivalent such glitches
	  already happen every day, so this isn't seriously altering
	  the landscape.

	- Ken's simulations are fairly natural first stabs, though not
	  even close to being comprehensive.  (And doing it in a comprehensive
	  fashion would be a *lot* of work.)

	- But: my own sense is that there's no need to be comprehensive
	  for this.

	- I don't understand Ken's "PAUSE" control message, but if it's
	  a layer-2 signal then it requires some careful thought, and
	  my intuition is it would turn out to be a bad idea (so if the
	  sense is that this would be *required* for some reason, then
	  it's time to explore it further rather than proceeding).  Related
	  to this, mention of possibly standardizing in the IETF gives me
	  considerable pause.

	- If you wanted to thoroughly examine these issues, the way to
	  start would be email among the interested parties (e.g., me & Ken
	  and whoever else), or, better, on one of the relevant mailing lists.
	  It's not clear to me from your framing whether such thoroughness
	  is needed at this point.