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Re: [802.3_DIALOG] IEEE 802.3 PAR review ad hoc meeting announcement

Bob - you are correct - this project only relates to half-duplex 10BASE-T1S (both in multidrop and point to point half-duplex).   I would suggest changing the Need for the project to make it more clear:
From:
"Support for the IEEE Std 802.3 Clause 4 MAC operating in half-duplex, including
on links using IEEE Std 802.3cg (10BASE-T1S), is needed in some applications (e.g., automotive in-vehicle
networks and industrial automation networks)."
To:
"Support is needed in applications such as automotive in-vehicle networks and industrial automation networks for the IEEE Std 802.3 Clause 4 MAC operating in half-duplex, including those using links with the 10BASE-T1S PHY in either point-to-point or multidrop half-duplex mode recently introduced by IEEE Std 802.3cg-2019.."

The whole thing is worded badly, so I tried to make the need clear.  The need begs whether the scope really is well-contained - but other than my comment below, I'm going to take them at their word.  I'm not going to stand on my wordsmithing of their document - but the key points are: make it clear 10BASE-T1S in half-duplex, point-to-point and multidrop; and that these came in from IEEE Std 802.3-2019.  (note that they spell out IEEE Std 802.3cg-2019 in 8.1, but only call it IEEE Std 802.3cg in their current text - this proposed fix corrects that as well)

There may also be an issue on the CSD as well.

1.2.1 says " It is anticipated that the support for the IEEE Std 802.3 Clause 4 MAC operating in half-duplex will be needed for industrial automation applications, as part of ongoing work on IEC/IEEE 60802 project Time-Sensitive Networking Profile for Industrial Automation, or a potential amendment, after the completion of low-cost IEEE 802.3 PHYs targeted at industrial automation."
I don't know what 'low-cost IEEE 802.3 PHYs' they are referring to.  Is this 10BASE-T1S again?  Then he goes on to saying that this doesn't work.  Recommend to delete this whole paragraph which just talks about things that might meet requirements, and might need updates.  If their inclusion is relevant to meeting the CSD, then you need a dependency, because you have identified a possible need for updates.

The group may wish to constrain the scope to those PHYs (and their successors) as well, but I'm not seeing how to write that.  Looking at their technical feasibility it isn't clear whether they need PLCA operating.

-george



-----Original Message-----
From: ROBERT GROW <bobgrow@xxxxxxx> 
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2021 12:06 PM
To: STDS-802-3-DIALOG@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [802.3_DIALOG] IEEE 802.3 PAR review ad hoc meeting announcement

Colleagues,

I find myself in the unusual position of having only one minor comments on the documents David cites below.  Please feel free to respond to the below possible comment item or anything else you might notice in the proposed work.

Proposed P802.1ASds, PAR 5.5 Need
The response includes:  "IEEE Std 802.3cg (10BASE-T1S)”.  I note this amendment specifies both 10BASE-T1L and 10BASE-T1S, and therefore it is not appropriate to equate the amendment to only the one PHY type .  

I would encourage those with interest and expertise in time sync and/or 802.3cg to review the proposed P802.1ASds documents for what you hope 802.1AS will add for half duplex operation.

I look forward to some of you joining the call below.

Bob Grow
Chair, PAR review ad hoc


> On Oct 12, 2021, at 3:57 AM, Law, David <dlaw@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
> Dear Colleagues,
> 
> The following Project Authorisation Requests (PAR) and associated Criteria for Standards Development (CSD) have been submitted by other Working Groups for consideration at the November 2021 plenary session. Under the modified PAR approval process for the November 2021 plenary session, comments on PARs from other WGs are due no later than Wednesday 10 November 2021 AoE. I have chartered an Ad Hoc to review and generate comments on behalf of the IEEE 802.3 Working Group. The Ad Hoc will meet on Monday 25 October 2021 from 16h00 to 17h30 UTC and Bob Grow has agreed to Chair. As always, please access <https://ieee802.org/3/calendar.html> for teleconference access information, I've copied the information for this meeting below. All are invited to share any comments about these PARs on the IEEE 802.3 Dialog reflector <stds-802-3-dialog@xxxxxxxx> before this ad hoc meeting.
> 
> Best regards,
>  David
> 
> -----
> 
> Date: Monday 25 October 2021
> Time: 16h00 to 17h30 UTC
> 
> JOIN WEBEX MEETING
> https://ieeesa.webex.com/ieeesa/j.php?MTID=m828465823d6e322049b21de312
> 52cedf Meeting number (access code): 2330 034 3173 Meeting password: 
> uwU5bniHi37
> 
> JOIN BY PHONE: Global call-in numbers
> https://ieeesa.webex.com/ieeesa/globalcallin.php?MTID=m684a25146ec00e6
> 4928f2adda8a62285
> 
> -----
> 
> Amendment project PAR
> ---------------------
> 
> IEEE P802.1ASds	Support for the IEEE Std 802.3 Clause 4 Media Access Control (MAC) operating in half-duplex
> PAR: 
> https://www.ieee802.org/1/files/public/docs2021/ds-draft-PAR-0921-v01.
> pdf
> CSD: 
> https://www.ieee802.org/1/files/public/docs2021/ds-draft-CSD-0921-v01.
> pdf
> 
> PAR Modification request
> ------------------------
> 
> IEEE P802.11bb	Light Communications
> PAR: 
> https://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/21/11-21-1283-00-00bb-tgbb-modified
> -par.pdf
> CSD: 
> https://mentor.ieee.org/802-ec/dcn/18/ec-18-0080-00-ACSD-802-11bb.docx
> 
> Revision PAR
> ------------
> 
> IEEE P802.15.3ma	Standard for High Data Rate Wireless Multi-Media Networks - Revision to IEEE Standard 802.15.3-2016
> PAR: 
> https://mentor.ieee.org/802.15/dcn/21/15-21-0475-03-03ma-draft-par-15-
> 3ma.pdf
> CSD: 
> https://mentor.ieee.org/802.15/dcn/21/15-21-0477-03-03ma-draft-csd-15-
> 3ma.docx
> 
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