Re: [802.3_EPOC] What is the problem with the EPoC converter, and what is the CLT?
Bill,
That is one of the reasons why I agree with Jorge: there is need for it, and
we need to look at providing this specific feature so there is no doubt and
finger-pointing later on.
Marek
-----Original Message-----
From: Trubey, Bill [mailto:bill.trubey@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 02 March 2012 16:31
To: STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [802.3_EPOC] What is the problem with the EPoC converter, and
what is the CLT?
Let's make sure the "bridging" IWF performs and is defined with no
ambiguities- as we saw long ago between two dissimilar media, FDDI and
Ethernet. We as consumers had to deal with several (large) vendors pointing
fingers at each other on who interpreted the IEEE standards "correctly" .
_____________________________
Bill Trubey, Time Warner Cable
bill.trubey@xxxxxxxxxxx, (720) 279-2819
From: "Mudugere, Satish"
<satish.mudugere@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:satish.mudugere@xxxxxxxxx>>
Reply-To: "Mudugere, Satish"
<satish.mudugere@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:satish.mudugere@xxxxxxxxx>>
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2012 11:12:58 -0500
To:
"STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
"
<STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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Subject: Re: [802.3_EPOC] What is the problem with the EPoC converter, and
what is the CLT?
I agree with Vally. We have to define the content of the converter box in
detail. I would suggest to use the word 'EPoC bridge' than 'converter'. The
EPoC bridge needs to be clarified with input and output interfaces along
with the exact funcationality expected from the device. There is no packet
loss frame loss associated with bridge. The EPoC bridge acts a mediator for
OLT to treat ONU and CNU in same way.
Thx,
Satish
Intel Corporation
From: Valentin Ossman [mailto:Valentin_Ossman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 11:33 PM
To:
STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [802.3_EPOC] What is the problem with the EPoC converter, and
what is the CLT?
Hi Jorge,
I totally understand your concern and tried to raise this in the past
meeting in Long Beach.
The conversion box in your description is simply called a bridge and is
already defined by 802. That bridge has 2 interfaces, EPON for the fiber and
an new one for the Coax.
The challenge, as you correctly formulated, is to be able to manage and
provide the CNUs form the OLT. I completely agree with this statement and
want to see this on the EPOC objectives.
As a side note, there've been discussions about "media converters" or "black
magic box" between EPON (fiber) and EPOC (coax). Defining those boxes as PHY
layer "media converter" is incorrect in the 802 jargon as it implies that
every bit of information from one side is converted to the other side. To be
more specific, there is no packet filtering in the media converter as the
PHY can't analyze a data packet (that's done in the MAC).
I propose that we move away from the self-imposed limitation of "media
converter" and PHY only protocol and, have a solid discussion on a practical
solution that is able to provide a manageable data service between the OLT
and the ONU, taking advantage of EPON and the most efficient technologies
available for Coax at this time.
We should not impose unnecessary technical and physical limitation on the
coax just to have a protocol identical to EPON but we must ensure that
whatever we define, can work with and be manageable from existent EPON OLT
equipment.
We must also completely define those "black magic boxes". There is no point
in defining an architecture that relays on an element that is not
standardized. I propose we use the well defined functionality of Ethernet
switches/bridges for that element.
---
Valy Ossman
Principal System Architect
FTTH BU
www.PMC-Sierra.com
From: Salinger, Jorge [mailto:Jorge_Salinger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 9:13 PM
To:
STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [802.3_EPOC] What is the problem with the EPoC converter, and what
is the CLT?
Paul, David, Howard, and EPoC Study Group members,
I'm expanding a discussion that I had with Marek, Ed, and Mark to the entire
team. I know this will get unruly, but I see this as a "white elephant in
the room" for what seems like some sort of philosophical argument, so might
as well get it out in the open. Also, I recognize that this was a subject of
discussion during the meeting in Newport Beach, but I did not understand it
then and thought it might not be important. I see now that it is a key
problem that if not resolved will haunt us forever. So, let's see if we can
discuss it via Email and see if we can resolve it before the meeting in
Hawaii.
My initial statement of the problem to Ed, Mark and Marek, expanded for
clarity, is: I struggle with what the CLT is, and what is the problem with
the converter that we need to define. I see the EPON and EPoC systems
containing these components:
EPON:
OLT <=== Fiber =====================================> ONUs
EPoC:
OLT <=== Fiber ====> converter <=== HFC network ====> CNUs
The bottom line is that I want to buy a standard OLT, and buy ONUs for
customers I can connect via fiber. And, when I can't run fiber to customers,
I want to buy a converter between the fiber and the HFC network so I can use
the same standard OLT, and use CNUs (an RF version of the ONU) for those
customers attached to the HFC network.
The FIRST KEY POINT here is that I want to use the same OLT.
The SECOND KEY POINT is that I want to buy a passthrough device that will be
invisible to the OLT, which will take the optical EPON signals and convert
them into RF signals. This passthrough device must be flexible in several
ways, such as allowing me to use different portions of the RF spectrum,
including more and less spectrum as available.
The THIRD KEY POINT is that I want the CNU to be functionally equivalent to
the ONU so that the OLT does not know the difference.
I think that I want the RF PHY that the converter and the CNU will use to be
defined at IEEE because that should make it easier for the vendors that will
implement the converter and the CNU to develop it.
But people tell me that this will be a problem because, from what I
understand, the IEEE does not specify converters or some such rationale.
Because of that we have to talk about a CLT instead of the OLT, to hide the
converter inside the OLT (if I understood correctly).
I hope I was able to keep the definition of the problem simple and clean
enough to have a straightforward discussion of why we can't do what I, and
my esteemed MSO colleagues, need.
So, what is the problem with the converter, and why is there a need to
instead define a CLT which is something I don't want to have?
Thanks!
Jorge
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