[8023-POEP] 2P v 4P and safety
PoE Plus 
Team,
 
Here are some 
thought I had over the weekend regarding 2P vs. 4P, and safety.  I checked 
with Mike, and he wrote that it's okay to post this on the reflector and get a 
converstation going.
 
1.  There are 
basically two roadblocks to higher power:
    
a.  The limited amount of current that can be carried on a single wire (not 
a pair of wires).
         
We must assume that sometimes a wire will break, or a connector pin will go 
bad,
         so all 
the current will be on one wire instead of a pair.  This fault condition 
must define
         the 
limit on how high I_CUT can go, for safety.
    
b.  The affects of heating and current imbalance on the 
magnetics.
 
2.  To make 
sure we get it right in terms of safety, I propose:
    
a.  The objective regarding the goal of higher power should be amended to 
include
         a few 
words about safety.
    b.  Let's look for a 
worst-case scenario to keep in mind while we work on the 
standard.
         The 
best one I've thought of so far is the airline industry.  Assume PoE is 
used onboard
         a jet 
so that passengers can surf the net or watch DVDs in flight, without the 
batteries
         in 
their laptops dying.  How hot do you think the FAA will allow the wires to 
get?  How
         much 
current can a single conductor (in a bundle) carry before it reaches that 
temp?
 
3.  I thought 
about Clays presentation a lot over the weekend.  It seems to me that 
reaching
     higher power (>30W) will 
require two things:
    
a.  Current imbalance sensing to detect broken wires, so we can increase 
I_CUT beyond
         what a 
single conductor can handle, without compromising safety.
    b.  
Active current balancing to keep the magnetics happy.  Although this won't 
solve the
         
heating problem.
 
4.  Maybe it's 
time for an acronym here.  How about Active Current Balance (ACB) and 
Current Imbalance
     Sensing (CIS).  They seem 
to go together, so "ACB/CIS"?
 
 
5.  Compare the 
complexity of a 2P and a 4P system that carry equal power.  The 2P 
system
     would need about twice the 
current per conductor as the 4P system.  So, while the current 
on
     4P system might just be low 
enough to avoid the need for ACB/CIS, the 2P system would almost
     certainly need these 
features.  So the complexity difference between 2P and 4P may not be 
as
     big as previously 
thought, at least in some medium power range.  For much higher 
power, 
4P
     would require 
ACB/CIS as 
well, but 2P becomes infeasable because of safety.
 
6.  Suppose PoE 
Plus allows both 2P and 4P.  How do we define this without getting into 
several
     different types of PSE and PD, 
with all the complexity of hooking them together?  I think 
the
     answer is simple:  
We define a 2P system, and then say that it's legal to have one or two of 
these
     on the same cable.  
So, two independant 2P systems make a 4P system.  I think this is really 
the
     only way to go, but of course 
I'm open to other ideas.
 
 
Steve 
Robbins