Re: [802SEC] UL and 802 policy about restriction notices ine-mails.
All,
I agree with Geoff and Tony.
Any entity could add a statement to a communation that any restrictive
text in the communication is to be ignored regardless of whether that
was acceptable to or the desire of the original sender. The addition of
"cancelling" text is in general not credible.
Regards,
wlq
Tony Jeffree wrote:
>
> Geoff -
>
> I agree with your analysis - it is not a smart move to accept assertions of
> the form "The following assertion should be ignored". There are sufficient
> other options (use other Email service, push back on corporate
> policy...etc) that this kind of approach is unnecessary anyway.
>
> Regards,
> Tony
>
> At 07:47 21/07/2002 -0700, Geoff Thompson wrote:
>
> >Bob-
> >
> >My answer to your question would be that my vote would be no.
> >The approach that we should take to text within a correspondence that is
> >internally contradictory should be towards the conservative. That would
> >take us in the other direction from where you want to go.
> >
> >We could easily get into a situation following your suggestion where an
> >employer would assert that their employee had not right to make the
> >assertion and that the corporate text was prevailing.
> >
> >We should not go there.
> >
> >Geoff
> >
> >
> >At 08:26 PM 7/20/02 -0400, Robert D. Love wrote:
> >>I have one additional comment on possible wording concerning gratuitous
> >>"Confidential Notices" at the end of emails.
> >>
> >>Could we allow the email author to include directly above such a comment a
> >>notice to ignore the posted "Confidential Notice" as not applying to this
> >>email. That may provide people with a way to post emails from their work
> >>address while they are still negotiating with their employer to find a way
> >>to remove the notice from their outgoing mail to 802 reflectors.
> >>
> >>Best regards,
> >>
> >>Robert D. Love
> >>President, Resilient Packet Ring Alliance
> >>President, LAN Connect Consultants
> >>7105 Leveret Circle Raleigh, NC 27615
> >>Phone: 919 848-6773 Mobile: 919 810-7816
> >>email: rdlove@ieee.org Fax: 208 978-1187
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "Roger B. Marks" <r.b.marks@ieee.org>
> >>To: "Geoff Thompson" <gthompso@nortelnetworks.com>
> >>Cc: <stds-802-sec@ieee.org>
> >>Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 5:10 PM
> >>Subject: Re: [802SEC] UL and 802 policy about restriction notices in
> >>e-mails.
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Geoff,
> >> >
> >> > I like everything you propose, but I have some comments on the last
> >>paragraph.
> >> >
> >> > >Copyrighted works may be accepted as submissions for inclusions in drafts
> >>only with an appropriate release.
> >> >
> >> > My concern is that we need to have some kind of copyright release for
> >>_all_ submissions. Even if a work is not explicitly copyrighted (by, for
> >>example, some publisher), the author may own rights to it that could
> >>possibly cause us some trouble.
> >> >
> >> > I adapted this release notice, which is on the 802.16 contribution cover
> >>sheet template, from the TIA statement:
> >> >
> >> > "The contributor grants a free, irrevocable license to the IEEE to
> >>incorporate text contained in this contribution, and any modifications
> >>thereof, in the creation of an IEEE Standards publication; to copyright in
> >>the IEEE's name any IEEE Standards publication even though it may include
> >>portions of this contribution; and at the IEEE's sole discretion to permit
> >>others to reproduce in whole or in part the resulting IEEE Standards publica
> >>tion. The contributor also acknowledges and accepts that this contribution
> >>may be made public by IEEE 802.16."
> >> >
> >> > >Copyrighted works may be referenced in drafts and presentations if they
> >>are available on reasonable and non-discriminatory terms.
> >> >
> >> > I think we should defer to the IEEE-SA policy and language on this. If we
> >>embed specific language into our rules, we may find ourselves out of sync.
> >> >
> >> > Roger
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > >Folks-
> >> > >
> >> > >I just got off of the phone with John Verscaj, Vice President and General
> >>Counsel of Underwriters Labs. He (effectively) said he understands our
> >>position and will not oppose it further. He is investigating options with
> >>the IT Department of UL and with the upper management of UL that will solve
> >>the problem at the UL end. The current situation is that (as far as he
> >>knows) the "Internet E-mail Confidentiality Disclaimer" is automatically
> >>appended to all external e-mails as they leave UL.
> >> > >
> >> > >Until he gets that problem solved I suggested that UL could correspond
> >>with us via fax, postal mail or an outside e-mail account. I said that we
> >>would respond promptly and were happy to work with them.
> >> > >
> >> > >So, as far as I am concerned, this is no longer a priority issue. This
> >>episode does point out that it would be useful to have relevant text in our
> >>P&P. To that end (as promised earlier), I would like to put the following
> >>text in as a proposed addition to the IEEE Project 802 Operating Rules. As
> >>an interested party and voting member of 802.3, I would also propose the
> >>same text for adoption in 802.3, to be removed upon adoption by 802. This is
> >>only because the adoption track for non-controversial issues in 802.3 is
> >>faster.
> >> > >
> >> > >Bob O'Hara, please put me down for a November Monday agenda item to
> >>propose the following addition to the Operating Rules:
> >> > >
> >> > >(We currently have no "Procedure" for how to achieve "openness" in our
> >>meetings. I think this is a start on the more general topic. I believe that
> >>the text is an accurate representation of our long standing policy.)
> >> > >
> >> > >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >> > >
> >> > >(Proposed documentation of existing) 802 Policy regarding restrictive
> >>notices
> >> > >
> >> > >IEEE 802 operates in an open manner. To that end, no material submitted
> >>to IEEE 802, or any of its sub-groups, will be accepted or considered if
> >>that material contains any statement that places any burden on the
> >>recipient(s) with respect to confidentiality or copyright. This policy
> >>specifically includes e-mail.
> >> > >
> >> > >Any material that has such a "Confidentiality Disclaimer" on it is not
> >>acceptable. The purpose of such a disclaimer is to transfer some level of
> >>responsibility to the recipient for deciding whether or not it is
> >>appropriate to disclose, use, disseminate, copy, post or otherwise
> >>distribute, the material.
> >> > >
> >> > >IEEE 802 accepts no such responsibility.
> >> > >The most effective way for 802 to decline any such responsibility is to
> >>not accept material with such a disclaimer.
> >> > >
> >> > >Correspondence with 802 groups will not be confidential. It is very
> >>likely that any such correspondence (in addition to being discussed in open
> >>meetings) will be posted in the open portion of our web-site and thus will
> >>be disclosed, disseminated and distributed. Anyone who wishes to correspond
> >>with an 802 group must understand and accept this as a condition of sending
> >>us any documentation. Inclusion of any restrictive notice is contrary to,
> >>and negates, any indication of acceptance of the IEEE 802 policy of
> >>openness.
> >> > >
> >> > >Copyrighted works may be accepted as submissions for inclusions in drafts
> >>only with an appropriate release. Copyrighted works may be referenced in
> >>drafts and presentations if they are available on reasonable and
> >>non-discriminatory terms.
> >> > >---------------------------------------------------
> >> > >
> >> > >Best regards,
> >> > >
> >> > >Geoff
> >> > >
> >> > >|=========================================|
> >> > >| Geoffrey O. Thompson |
> >> > >| Vice Chair, IEEE 802 |
> >> > >| Nortel Networks, Inc. M/S: P79/06/B04 |
> >> > >| 4655 Great America Parkway |
> >> > >| P. O. Box 58185 |
> >> > >| Santa Clara, CA 95052-8185 USA |
> >> > >| Phone: +1 408 495 1339 |
> >> > >| Fax: +1 408 495 5615 |
> >> > >| E-Mail: thompson@ieee.org |
> >> > >| Please see the IEEE 802 web page at |
> >> > >| http://www.ieee802.org/
> >> >
> >
>
> Regards,
> Tony