RE: [802SEC] Proposed Alternative to changing the rules forWGme mbership
Bob-
I would say that we could appropriately not grant credit for short notice
meetings. Short notice meetings generally only occur at the last stages of
a project during the last half of WG ballot or during sponsor ballot. If
someone is trying to use one of those meetings to gain initial voting
membership then it is not for the project that he is attending. The voting
membership for that project is:
1) For WG ballot determined at vote to ballot.
2) For Sponsor not a 802 membership issue.
Therefore they are going to meetings outside their interest focus just to
gain membership.
I don't think this is something that we have to include in our provisions.
I don't think we would lose anything by not issuing credit for short notice
meetings
Geoff
At 02:45 PM 9/29/2002 -0700, Grow, Bob wrote:
>I would object to a <45 day requirement. Though dot 3 usually has Interim
>Task Force meeting information available at the closing 802.3 plenary, there
>are times when we call a meeting and compute attendance credit with less
>notice. In some cases (e.g., when working on SB recirculations), we will
>announce the possibility of holding a meeting as a courtesy and so that
>people will hold the date open, but only hold the meeting if necessary
>(e.g., the ballot produces comments). For this we are only limited by our
>802.3 rules requirement that 30 day notice be provided (exceeding the 802
>rule by two days). If properly announced and of at least two days duration
>we treat the meeting as duly constituted per 802 rules.
>
>As Pat and Geoff have pointed out, we have multiple interim meetings. Geoff
>pointed out that our New Orleans meeting is actually two task force interims
>(802.3af and 802.3ah), New Orleans is also an example of a point Pat made
>because 802.3af also met in Chelmsford in August. Each of these meetings is
>evaluated for attendance credit.
>
>I believe it is appropriate to recognize attendance when a Task Force
>commits to a more intensive meeting schedule to complete the standard a few
>months earlier than would happen with a single interim. The 45 day
>requirement would either have the effect of delaying completion of 802.3
>standards or unnecessarily remove one small incentive for people to attend
>and support an aggressive schedule.
>
>--Bob Grow
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Mike Takefman [mailto:tak@cisco.com]
>Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 8:52 AM
>To: Robert D. Love
>Cc: stds-802-sec@ieee.org
>Subject: Re: [802SEC] Proposed Alternative to changing the rules forWGme
>mbership
>
>
>
>Bob,
>
>given your statement and tony's reply about the > 4 weeks in the current
>rules. I support a notification period of no less than 45 days.
>
>mike
>
>"Robert D. Love" wrote:
> >
> > Based on the fact that we now have a considerable history of interim
>meeting
> > dates and venues not being known until the end of the previous plenary, I
> > would recommend that 45 days be the minimum notification required for
> > interim meetings to count within the required 4. I believe that 4 months
>is
> > too much lead time to require, and it is an unnecessarily large lead time
> > for smaller working groups (< 150 participants at a meeting).
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Robert D. Love
> > President, Resilient Packet Ring Alliance
> > President, LAN Connect Consultants
> > 7105 Leveret Circle Raleigh, NC 27615
> > Phone: 919 848-6773 Mobile: 919 810-7816
> > email: rdlove@ieee.org Fax: 208 978-1187
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mike Takefman" <tak@cisco.com>
> > To: <stds-802-sec@ieee.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 10:03 AM
> > Subject: Re: [802SEC] Proposed Alternative to changing the rules forWGme
> > mbership
> >
> > >
> > > Tony, Pat,
> > >
> > > one question, one statement and a proposal modification.
> > >
> > > Q) I searched the rules for the snippet "duly constituted". It is
> > > undefined in the document. Could I please have a definition?
> > >
> > > My intent in proposing a 4 meeting window where the interim
> > > meetings were well advertised is an attempt to make sure that
> > > quorum does not need to be met in order for an interim meeting
> > > to count IFF it is advertised well in advance (say 16 weeks).
> > > While we often make the point that plenary dates are known
> > > years in advance, I think that operationally, people do not
> > > really plan their IEEE travel any more than 4 months in advance.
> > > A requirement for 16 weeks normally means that at any given
> > > interim, the next interim date must be know.
> > >
> > > I am willing to have voting rights start at the begining of
> > > the third meeting given the comments by Pat and Tony.
> > >
> > > mike
> > >
> > > Tony Jeffree wrote:
> > > >
> > > > At 16:19 25/09/2002 -0600, THALER,PAT (A-Roseville,ex1) wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >I disagree with you about the impact of the change to the rule on
> > gaining
> > > > >membership. There are very large numbers of casual attendees who
>attend
> > > > >two 802.3 meetings. Requiring attendence of three meetings to gain
> > voting
> > > > >rights filters out casual attendees. Granting voting rights for those
> > who
> > > > >attend just two meetings could make it difficult to close ballots or
> > get
> > > > >quorums.
> > > > >
> > > > >David Law could provide actual numbers, but I would say it isn't
> > unusual
> > > > >for 802.3 to have 30 to 50 people per plenary cycle who have attended
> > two
> > > > >meetings but don't attend the third.
> > > >
> > > > Pat -
> > > >
> > > > Its a fair point - in that case, retaining the 3 meeting requirement
>for
> > > > gaining a vote is a good idea.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Tony
> > >
> > > --
> > > Michael Takefman tak@cisco.com
> > > Manager of Engineering, Cisco Systems
> > > Chair IEEE 802.17 Stds WG
> > > 2000 Innovation Dr, Ottawa, Canada, K2K 3E8
> > > voice: 613-254-3399 fax: 613-254-4867
>
>--
>Michael Takefman tak@cisco.com
>Manager of Engineering, Cisco Systems
>Chair IEEE 802.17 Stds WG
>2000 Innovation Dr, Ottawa, Canada, K2K 3E8
>voice: 613-254-3399 fax: 613-254-4867