Re: [802SEC] +++10 Day EC Email Ballot+++ 802.1aq book signing
All,
As much as it pains me :), while I voted yes, I agree with Geoff's initial comment that it would be difficult to deny publishers other than the IEEE an opportunity to promote IEEE 802 related material. Once we go down that path, then we need to consider the points James brought up. And is it just books? What about instructive videos?
James also raises an interesting point on the use of revenue as a possible cost offsetter. Perhaps this might be a vehicle to explore to help offset costs of international excursions?
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stds-802-sec@ieee.org [mailto:owner-stds-802-sec@ieee.org] On Behalf Of James P. K. Gilb
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 7:06 AM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] +++10 Day EC Email Ballot+++ 802.1aq book signing
All
I was part of one of those signing events as an author, but I was not an
EC member and so I don't recall if a vote was run.
I have not voted on this as I didn't know that we had the ability to
authorize (or prevent) the actions of IEEE staff. Is the question that
we want to allow the activity at our plenary and that without the EC
permission it might be seen as non-standards related?
If so, then perhaps we should be prepared to allow any other publisher
of 802 standards related books to sponsor similar author signing and
sales. They could certainly be seen as relevant to our standards effort.
And then, if we do that, should there be a fee for the table? IEEE
MTT-S, for example, has a Symposium with presentation of refereed papers
as well as an industry exhibition. The revenue from the exhibition goes
a long way to paying for the papers side of the symposium. It is not
profit making because all the revenue goes to expenses.
James Gilb
On 05/24/2012 01:05 AM, Tony Jeffree wrote:
> I also have that recollection.
>
> Regards,
> Tony
>
>
>
> On 24 May 2012 08:51, Pat Thaler<pthaler@broadcom.com> wrote:
>
>> I recall signing events - there was one for the EPON book and, I think,
>> another for a wireless book. I don't recall doing a motion in those cases.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:
>> STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Geoff Thompson
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 12:12 PM
>> To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>> Subject: Re: [802SEC] +++10 Day EC Email Ballot+++ 802.1aq book signing
>>
>> Tony-
>>
>> On 235//12 10:02 AM, Tony Jeffree wrote:
>>> Geoff -
>>>
>>> We have had similar signing events in the past for books published by
>>> the IEEE on LAN topics, and have also had IEEE book stalls at our
>>> Plenaries in the past, selling a wider range of IEEE publications.
>>
>> I do recall the IEEE having a table where they peddled goods from their
>> profit making arms.
>> I do not recall signing events.
>> I recognize the similarity of this to the event we are talking about. I
>> have never been wild about these but have recognized these are more or
>> less part of what comes with the SA being a subsidiary of the
>> Institute. I think the space between this and a signing event for the
>> same merchandise is a shallow and slippery slope but I do think the line
>> is right about here.
>>
>>> And actually, developing/selling standards is also supposed to be an
>>> IEEE profit making operation - are you suggesting we are over the line
>>> there too?
>>
>> While selling standards may or may not be (or supposed to be) a profit
>> making operation, it is undertaken by an arm of the IEEE that is most
>> definitely under the portion of the SA that is both "not for profit" and
>> "for the benefit of humanity". They are "our (consensus) product"
>> (rather than the independent product of some of our members).
>>
>> I have no problem with any activity or promotion that we take to sell
>> standards. That is proper and not "over the line". I would have
>> absolutely no problem with a booth at an 802 Plenary selling (at a
>> premium even) signed copies of any of our standards. (Frankly I'm a
>> little surprised that Roger hasn't done that already.)
>>
>>
>> The issue here is the sanctioned promotion of the sale of a class of
>> unballoted non-consensus publications that are potentially opinion
>> pieces not subject to any of the checks and balances of the standards
>> process.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Geoff
>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Tony
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 23 May 2012 17:45, Geoff Thompson<thompson@ieee.org
>>> <mailto:thompson@ieee.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Colleagues-
>>>
>>> As usual, I am not allowed to vote on this.
>>> I am uncomfortable with this though as being overly commercial.
>>> I think this activity dances on the line.
>>>
>>> This is a commercial promotion for a profit making operation
>>> within the
>>> IEEE.
>>> We have had numerous other books written by standards luminaries
>>> specifically and equally focused about other standards. They have
>>> often
>>> been published by others than the IEEE. I would find it difficult to
>>> deny them equal opportunity to promote an equal (or better)
>>> product that
>>> was focused on one of our efforts.
>>>
>>> I don't think this is a clear call but I would rather we avoid the
>>> line
>>> than dance over it.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Geoff
>>>
>>> On 235//12 7:01 AM, Tony Jeffree wrote:
>>>
>>> Paul has authorized me to run an email ballot on the following
>>> motion:
>>>
>>> Motion: Grant permission to IEEE-SA staff to organize,
>>> promote and conduct
>>> sales of a book on 802.1aq, including author signing, at the
>>> July 802
>>> plenary.
>>>
>>> Moved: Jeffree Seconded: Thaler
>>>
>>> Background:
>>>
>>> This book, which is published through IEEE, was written by two
>>> members of
>>> the 802.1 WG who were contributors to the work on IEEE Std.
>>> 802.1aq which
>>> was approved by SASB in March 2012.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This will be a 10-day ballot, closing on 3rd June 2012 AOE; as
>>> per current
>>> P&P I will terminate the ballot early if it is clear that the
>>> outcome has
>>> been decided.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Tony
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
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