Re: [802SEC] Proposed rule changes for July meeting
As regards the non-voting EC members I can find myself in agreement with Pat.
Sorry, to me hibernating is the next step before elimination. So why the need?
Regards,
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Pat Thaler
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 2:31 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Proposed rule changes for July meeting
Another thing that non-voting EC members can do that the general 802 public can't - participate in executive sessions.
In my opinion there is enough that the same endorsement letters should be required for them as for the voting EC and WG vice-chairs.
As far as working group role, a hibernating WG's chair has in some ways more sole responsibility than a WG chair because it is up to the hibernating chair's judgment to maintain the list of WG members/experts and to decide on when to take action for the WG including requesting wake-up without the benefit of WG meetings.
Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of J Lemon
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 1:22 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Proposed rule changes for July meeting
I can possibly see asking for affiliation statements for that rare activity, but only when such an activity takes place, not just on the unlikely possibility that it might some day. And I certainly can't see asking for endorsement statements at all.
On 7/6/2012 12:40 PM, John D'Ambrosia wrote:
> John,
> As Pat already pointed out -
>
> I agree with John. An additional reason is that non-voting EC members can also have substantive assignments from the EC chair including sitting on appeals panels.
>
> While you are one example of a non-voting EC member, there are other examples of individuals who do partake in activities who need to be considered.
>
> John
> -----Original Message-----
> From: J Lemon [mailto:jlemon@meus.us]
> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 3:35 PM
> To: John D'Ambrosia
> Cc: James P. K. Gilb; STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [802SEC] Proposed rule changes for July meeting
>
> Non-voting members can't do anything that the general 802 public can't
> do. Non-voting members can speak their mind during plenaries. But so
> can anyone else who wants to come up to the mic. Non-voting members
> can communicate on this DL. But so can anyone else who asks to join
> the list. Are we going to ask for endorsement and affiliation letters
> for anyone who participates by speaking during a meeting or sending to this DL?
>
> On 7/6/2012 11:34 AM, John D'Ambrosia wrote:
>> John,
>> There are non-voting members who do participate and can have impacts on the decision process via their actual participation.
>>
>> John
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: J Lemon [mailto:jlemon@meus.us]
>> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 2:30 PM
>> To: John D'Ambrosia
>> Cc: James P. K. Gilb; STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>> Subject: Re: [802SEC] Proposed rule changes for July meeting
>>
>> I see no reason why I, as a non-voting member of the EC, should need
>> to show either endorsement or affiliation. I don't partake in any
>> activities of the EC. So why would I need to prove that some entity
>> endorses my lack of activities? And since I can't vote, how does my
>> affiliation have any effect on anything?
>>
>> John Lemon
>> Chair of Hibernated 802.17
>>
>> On 7/6/2012 10:56 AM, John D'Ambrosia wrote:
>>> James,
>>> Speaking as the guy who will have to deal with people next go around - I would like to see both letters (endorsement / affiliation) called out in the rules, and believe both voting and non-voting should be required to provide both.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-stds-802-sec@ieee.org
>>> [mailto:owner-stds-802-sec@ieee.org] On Behalf Of James P. K. Gilb
>>> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 1:40 PM
>>> To: Pat Thaler
>>> Cc: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>>> Subject: Re: [802SEC] Proposed rule changes for July meeting
>>>
>>> All
>>>
>>> BTW: The issue here is the endorsement letter. The affiliation
>>> letter is required by ruling of the Chair. I suspect that you both
>>> are referring the the endorsement letter.
>>>
>>> We could modify the text in c) (for the affiliation letter) to say
>>> something like:
>>> c) Recognition that the individual is expected to act as both a
>>> professional and as an individual expert and, if voting, in
>>> accordance with the conditions stated in the Voting Guidance
>>> subclause of the IEEE
>>> 802 Operations Manual.
>>>
>>> That would cover it, I think.
>>>
>>> James Gilb
>>>
>>> On 07/06/2012 07:41 AM, Pat Thaler wrote:
>>>> I agree with John. An additional reason is that non-voting EC members can also have substantive assignments from the EC chair including sitting on appeals panels.
>>>>
>>>> Pat
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
>>>> [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@ieee.org] On Behalf Of John D'Ambrosia
>>>> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 5:31 AM
>>>> To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>>>> Subject: Re: [802SEC] Proposed rule changes for July meeting
>>>>
>>>> James,
>>>> I believe all members, including their alternates, of the sponsor should be required to provide the necessary letters of endorsement.
>>>>
>>>> Non-voting members should also provide the affiliation letter. A modified version of the affiliation letter, which doesn't include the statement regarding how to vote, should also be required. IMHO, such individuals still contribute to a decision process without voting by their participation in the debate of issues.
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: owner-stds-802-sec@ieee.org
>>>> [mailto:owner-stds-802-sec@ieee.org] On Behalf Of James P. K. Gilb
>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 8:15 PM
>>>> To: 802 EC
>>>> Subject: [802SEC] Proposed rule changes for July meeting
>>>>
>>>> All
>>>>
>>>> In the interest of getting the P&P changes onto AudCom's agenda, I
>>>> would like to start discussion of the proposed changes by email so
>>>> that we can have some level of consensus by the Sunday night rules
>>>> meeting that will lead to a successful motion on Monday morning.
>>>>
>>>> Accordingly, I would like to take up discussion of one of the
>>>> proposed changes on this email in search of feedback.
>>>>
>>>> Every 2 years, the Recording secretary asks for letters of
>>>> endorsement from potential EC members. Currently the rule states
>>>> "Any person to be confirmed by the Sponsor shall ...". I had produced two suggestions:
>>>>
>>>> a) "All members of the Sponsor shall ..."
>>>> b) "All voting members of the Sponsor shall ..."
>>>>
>>>> However, I have noticed that this leaves out WG and TAG Vice
>>>> Chairs, who are not members of the Sponsor, but can vote (under the
>>>> newly modified
>>>> rules) and are confirmed by the sponsor.
>>>>
>>>> It turns out that there is no central place that lists all the
>>>> persons that are to be confirmed by the Sponsor.
>>>>
>>>> So 2 questions:
>>>> 1) Should non-voting members of the Sponsor be required to
>>>> file letters of affiliation including the statement regarding how to vote?
>>>> 2) Should we add a list of the persons to be confirmed by the Sponsor?
>>>>
>>>> James Gilb
>>>>
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