Re: [802SEC] Green card cancellations for Vancouver

[Benjamin Rolfe <ben@BLINDCREEK.COM>]

I speak against the motion for the following reasons:

(1) It affords a privilege to one specific group not afforded to all attendees.  Any policy that singles out "green card holders" and does not allow the same consideration to other attendees with concerns is unfair. Under the IEEE ethical code we have a duty to treat all members fairly; we should extend that duty to all attendees, even if not IEEE members. If we are to consider concerns over entry into the US as a reason for a full refund, we must apply it equally to any attendee. Other attendees, e.g. a holder of an H1-B who is traveling on a passport issued by one of the 7 listed nations, have valid concerns and should be afforded equal considerations.  Any attendee, regardless of nationality, may have fears (founded or otherwise) due to circumstances that change following registering that alter they're desire to travel, and should be afforded equal consideration. 

(2) it is factually inaccurate.  Permanent residents ("green card holders") are not adversely affected by the presidential action referenced in the motion.

(3) "who believes" is an unverifiable requirement. 

(4) I agree with Jon's point that if our goal is to inform attendees, there are more direct and effective means.

(5) I agree with Roger that if our goal is to inform attendees, we need expertise we do not have to ensure the information provided is correct.

Respectfully,

Benjamin A. Rolfe, Blind Creek Associates

On 2/3/2017 10:01 AM, Jon Rosdahl wrote:

If we are looking to find ways to help our attendees (or potential) attendees information about the cancellation policy, then the proper place is to review and make change to the published cancellation policy.  A motion placed in the minutes of an EC Interim Telecon will not be readily available to the potential attendees.

The current practice, I believe, is sufficient, and we do not need a motion in either version provided by Adrian or Roger.

I would vote no on either motion, not because I don't agree with the sentiment or intent, but I do not wish to set the precedence of micro managing the Executive Secretary's authority to do the right thing. 

I will post an updated version of the Agenda shortly with all the proposed agenda items updated.

I have sent to Paul to make sure I have not missed any change to the draft agenda.

Jon

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On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 9:47 AM, Roger Marks <r.b.marks@ieee.org> wrote:

I disagree with this approach because it unnecessarily gets into legal details in which we are not expert. Recent news has indicated that visa holders are at greater risk than green card holders to leave the US, so this narrow approach may be missing the main problem anyway. Let's instead simply address the issue from the perspective of the participant. I would like to make the following motion at the meeting:

"To fully refund the March 802 Plenary registration fee when a registrant indicates that immigration circumstances beyond control may prevent attendance or subsequent return."

I think that this is basically Jon's current practice, with the additional clarification regarding "subsequent return," and will give the participants confidence in the policy.

Does anyone else support this approach? If not, then I won't make the motion.

Regards,

Roger

On Feb 3, 2017, 12:23 AM -0700, Adrian Stephens <adrian.p.stephens@ieee.org>, wrote:

Dear EC,

I will ask for agenda time to make the following motion at the EC telecon

Motion:   Move that any US green card holder of a nationality affected by recent US President
executive orders who believes they will be prevented from re-entering the USA after the March 2017
meeting in Vancouver be given a full refund of registration fees paid on cancellation.

Moved:  Adrian Stephens
Seconded: Clint Chaplin

I've had various offline discussions:
1. Q: "this is unnecessary".  A:  I beg to differ.   This establishes something we can point to in
our minutes that gives those attending or choosing not to attend March confidence in their actions.

2. Q: "this is too limited".   I'm trying to find a balance between doing nothing and creating a rules
change.   As the matter is fluid I think we should limit the scope of our changes to the upcoming
meeting.

Best Regards,

Adrian Stephens
IEEE 802.11 Working Group Chair
mailto: adrian.p.stephens@ieee.org
Phone: +1 (971) 203-2032
Phone: +447342178905
Skype: adrian_stephens

On 31/01/2017 08:32, Clint Chaplin wrote:

I would second such a motion

On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 11:59 PM, Adrian Stephens <adrian.p.stephens@ieee.org> wrote:

Dear EC,

I have had one email from an 802 member who is Iranian and a green card holder.
He is currently taking legal advice,  but believes he should not travel
to Vancouver because of fear of exclusion from the USA on attempted re-entry.

I will make a motion to allow a full refund for such individuals at the EC telecon.

--
Best Regards,

Adrian Stephens
IEEE 802.11 Working Group Chair
mailto: adrian.p.stephens@ieee.org
Phone: +1 (971) 203-2032
Phone: +447342178905
Skype: adrian_stephens

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--

Clint Chaplin
Principal Standards Engineer
Samsung Research America

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