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Re: [802SEC] proposed revision to IEEE 802 LMSC Operations Manual to support emergency electronic Plenary Sessions

I object to redefining "plenary session" in this way, making what should be a temporary disruption a permanent change in 802 LMSC operations.   It feels a lot like redefining "day time" so as to make scheduling teleconferences as easy as if the earth were flat.   The earth is not flat and the important work of this standards development group requires consensus building through personal interaction.  This is especially true in the earlier stages of a project.  The point of emergency measures is NOT to fundamentally change how we do things, but to do the LEAST disruption necessary to meed the immediate and temporary change.

Point by point then...

On 4/28/2020 3:01 PM, Roger Marks wrote:
James,

Thanks for your stimulating comments. I've thought about them and still prefer the proposed OpsMan update.

After reviewing the rules, I think that generalizing the definition of Plenary Session gets us close to complete solution. It doesn't require reworking all the procedures in detail; we would just use the existing procedures. If there are still remaining issues that don't meet our needs, then I think that your suggestion of suspension (prior to the next Plenary Session) could be a good complement to make further adjustments.

Agree it might *seem* easy.  The goal is not easy. It is to minimize disruption in extraordinary circumstances.  In any event a careful review of the intended or unintended consequences of any change must be done, as always, so I contend it isn't even "easy".
I believe that we could find a time zone that would work, though it won't be ideal for everyone. It's not clear to me that we would need to collect a registration fee but, if it's decided that we need one, then I'm confident we could. I'm also confident that WGs could hold officer elections, noting that the current WG P&P doesn't specify how they are conducted. Also note that the current WG P&P provides for voting during WG teleconferences. None of this would require procedure suspension.
Voting during teleconferences is a normal part of our process for some things we do, for example, comment resolution.  Since the world is not flat, finding a timezone that works for ALL attendees is impossible.  There are other practical considerations.  For many attendeees the face to face provides an opportunity to focus on standards work not available when in their normal work environment.

Maybe other wrinkles would show up, but I think we can iron them out.

Suspension alone is not a complete solution to the issues in front of us, of course. Suspension does not get around requirements in the LMSC P&P. For example, the terms of officers continue until we hold a Plenary Session. But, since the P&P specifies that a plenary session is "as defined in Plenary Sessions subclause" of the OpsMan, we have the power to enable the officer update process by updating the definition of the Plenary Session in the P&P.

The issue in front of is providing continuity during extraordinary circumstances.  It is not to accommodate alternatives for all processes or "get around" requirements in the P&P.   Using the terms of officers example, there is no reason to change the current requirements.  We have procedures for temporary assignment of an officer when the office holder is unable to perform the duties, we have means to replace an officer who steps down.   Changing officers during an emergency response is neither necessary nor appropriate.  We have all officer duties covered during this current disruption, and the impact of holding off elections until the next face to face plenary has no detrimental impact on LMSC and WG operations.   In fact, changing the process we use under the current disruption would only further disrupt operation of the WGs and has far greater potential for detrimental impact than asking the current officers to continue until the normal process can complete.



Finally, if we find that we could improve the electronic Plenary Session by differentiating it from an in-person Plenary Session, we can later change the Ops Manual again.

So I speak against redefining "Plenary Session" and strongly encourage participants to focus on MINIMAL changes to address immediate issues such as the  new PAR review and approval process, which is critical right now. 



So I still support the proposed changes.

Cheers,

Roger
On Apr 28, 2020, 12:53 PM -0600, James P. K. Gilb <Gilb_IEEE@yahoo.com>, wrote:
Roger

Yes, but then you are also fixed to a week duration. And the times in
the OM are not necessarily good world wide as the start times are offset
by 5 hours.

A 5 hour in-person meeting to close the week may make sense when we have
been in the same location and room but perhaps 2 2-hour sessions would
be better for an electronic plenary.

How will we set the fee for the meeting? Are there any approved
expenses for the treasurer?

How will WG's hold officer elections?

My humble suggestion is to use the suspension process until we find what
works, and then codify that. Or not. It could go in the Chair's
guidelines as a suggested way to hold an electronic plenary when/if it
is necessary.

James Gilb

On 4/28/20 11:46 AM, Roger Marks wrote:
James,

I recognize that some Plenary Session activities have specified clock-time mandates. That's why I proposed that an electronic Plenary be held "per an announced time zone"; I think this would establish all the deadlines.

Cheers,

Roger
On Apr 28, 2020, 12:27 PM -0600, James P. K. Gilb <000008e8b69871c2-dmarc-request@listserv.ieee.org>, wrote:
Roger

The edits would need to go deeper than that. For example, the opening
and closing sessions are defined times and durations.

A plenary session is also defined to be a week, but with WG ballots to
approve items for the closing LMSC meeting, it may take longer than that.

I would suggest instead that we suspend plenary rules for July in the OM
(based on the changes already suggested and reviewed, pending approval
of the new OM) and have the following schedule:

July 7: electronic meeting by LMSC to open the plenary.
July 7-17: WG electronic meetings and WG subgroup meetings
July 18-28: Time for any WG electronic ballots to approve actions
July 28 (and possibly 29): electronic meeting by LMSC to review WG
motions requiring EC approval and to close the plenary.

At this point, trying to chase down each rule associated with the
plenary and "fix" the OM (and potentially the WG P&P) would be
foolhardy, IMHO.

James Gilb

On 4/27/20 2:42 PM, ROBERT GROW wrote:
Roger:

One grammatical suggestion from the peanut gallery. In 1) new text last line, delete the last “shall”.

—Bob

On Apr 27, 2020, at 1:42 PM, Roger Marks <r.b.marks@IEEE.ORG> wrote:

Thanks, Glenn.

I started a comment tracking sheet <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LOguhfz71ge0TflrdaAcGGSMc-tGqHb9dQThtXeU2VM/edit?usp=sharing>. You should be able to see your comment and a response. I'm proposing a different resolution to the issue you identified: replacing "regular plenary sessions" (which was not defined) with "in-person plenary sessions" (which perhaps is clear enough). See if that is OK for you.

It should be possible for the public to view the sheet and add comments. If someone wants to edit the sheet directly, I can share write access.

Cheers,

Roger
On Apr 27, 2020, 1:56 PM -0600, Glenn Parsons <glenn.parsons@ericsson.com>, wrote:
Roger,


I support this simple modification that will negate having to define alternative electronic methods for various plenary only activities.


For clarity, you could consider adding a definition of “regular” in 5.1, for example before “in exceptional cases…”:

Regular LMSC plenary sessions shall be face-to-face.


Cheers,

Glenn.


From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** <STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> On Behalf Of Roger Marks
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 1:59 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [802SEC] proposed revision to IEEE 802 LMSC Operations Manual to support emergency electronic Plenary Sessions


I am hereby submitting a proposed revision to the IEEE 802 LMSC Operations Manual (OM). This notice is in accordance with OM Clause 19, which says "Revisions to the IEEE 802 LMSC OM shall be submitted by a Sponsor member to the Sponsor no less than 30 day in advance of a Sponsor Vote to approve them. The Sponsor member proposing the revision may modify the proposed revision during the 30 days prior to a Sponsor Vote (in response to comments)."

I'm open to any comments and modifications, but I want to get the clock ticking ASAP.

Here is the proposed revision:

(1) In subclause 5.1 ("Plenary sessions"), change the first paragraph:

Plenary sessions are the primary LMSC sessions. All active IEEE 802 LMSC WGs hold their plenary sessions during IEEE 802 LMSC plenary sessions.[v22]

to:

Plenary Sessions are the primary LMSC sessions. An LMSC Plenary Session is a multiday set of meetings identified as an LMSC Plenary Session by decision of the Standards Committee. The LMSC Plenary Session venue shall be announced at least three months in advance. In exceptional cases, the Standards Committee may cancel an announced venue and may decide that the Plenary Session will be a held by electronic means on the preannounced dates per an announced time zone. All active IEEE 802 Working Groups shall hold meetings during each IEEE 802 Plenary session; only during exceptional electronic Plenary Sessions shall such meetings shall be held exclusively electronically.

(2) In clause 5 ("IEEE 802 LMSC sessions"), delete the third paragraph:

All active IEEE 802 WGs shall meet face-to-face during each IEEE 802 Plenary session. All WG meetings shall only be face-to-face, electronic meetings are not allowed. Additionally, IEEE 802 TAGs are allowed to have electronic meetings to make decisions between meetings, but such meetings do not count for participation credit. [v22]

(3) In subclause 4.1.3, change as follows:
The Sponsor IEEE 802 LMSC meets in-person during regular plenary sessions and electronically during exceptional Plenary Sessions.


Rationale: The intention of the proposal is to generalize the concept of Plenary Session to include all-electronic sessions, in case exceptional circumstances require cancellation of a venue. The changes would allow the current procedures that are tied to a Plenary Session [except those addressed in changes (2) and (3)] to proceed without update. This includes all procedures in the LMSC Policies and Procedures, which says "A plenary session is as defined in Plenary Sessions subclause of the IEEE 802 LAN/MAN Standards Committee Operations Manual," and in the WG Policies and Procedures, which says "A plenary session is as defined in the “Plenary sessions” subclause of the IEEE 802 LMSC Operations Manual." The change also removes the hard prohibition on electronic WG meetings.


Cheers,


Roger

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