Hi Andrew,
I believe we'll also have participants in November in UTC+2 (e.g Israel) and UTC+5h30 (e.g India) so I've updated your tables to add these time zones. As you noted below, there is no good time for everyone.
Best regards,
David
-----
09h00 – 12h00 UTC-5 (EST) corresponds to:
06:00 – 09h00 UTC-8 (e.g. San Francisco)
14h00 – 17h00 UTC (e.g. UK)
15h00 - 18h00 UTC+1 (e.g. Brussels)
16h00 - 19h00 UTC+2 (e.g. Israel)
19h30 - 22h30 UTC+5h30 (e.g. India)
22h00 - 01h00 UTC+8 (e.g. China)
23h00 - 02h00 UTC+9 (e.g. Japan)
01h00 - 04h00 UTC+11 (e.g. Sydney)
15h00 - 18h00 UTC-5 (EST) corresponds to:
12:00 – 15h00 UTC-8 (e.g. San Francisco)
20h00 – 23h00 UTC (e.g. UK)
21h00 - 00h00 UTC+1 (e.g. Brussels)
22h00 - 01h00 UTC+2 (e.g. Israel)
01h30 - 04h30 UTC+5h30 (e.g. India)
04h00 - 07h00 UTC+8 (e.g. China)
05h00 - 08h00 UTC+9 (e.g. Japan)
07h00 - 10h00 UTC+11 (e.g. Sydney)
16h00 - 19h00 UTC-5 (EST) corresponds to:
13:00 – 16h00 UTC-8 (e.g. San Francisco)
21h00 – 00h00 UTC (e.g. UK)
22h00 - 01h00 UTC+1 (e.g. Brussels)
23h00 - 02h00 UTC+2 (e.g. Israel)
02h30 - 05h30 UTC+5h30 (e.g. India)
05h00 - 08h00 UTC+8 (e.g. China)
06h00 - 09h00 UTC+9 (e.g. Japan)
08h00 - 11h00 UTC+11 (e.g. Sydney)
-----
Sent: 21 July 2020 02:59
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Providing clarity on the November plenary
G’day John
I believe my times are correct for November.
It is a daylight savings thing. In November:
• US is back on normal time
• UK is back on normal time
• Europe is back on normal time
• Bangkok never changes
• Sydney is on daylight savings time
• Beijing never changes
• Tokyo never changes (since 1951)
The reality is that there is no good time for everyone. We need to share the pain, no only among current attendees but also future attendees. For example, using Bangkok time will enable folk from India to join the plenary, possibly for the first time.
That can only be a good thing. Are we international or not? We get to prove it (or not) in November.
Andrew
From: jdambrosia@gmail.com <jdambrosia@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 21 July 2020 9:48 AM
To: Andrew Myles (amyles) <amyles@cisco.com>; STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [802SEC] Providing clarity on the November plenary
Andrew
Thanks for the work.
I just checked online – and right now there is a 12 hour time difference between ET and Beijing, and a 13 hour time difference with Tokyo and a 14 hour time difference with Syndney
Corrections noted below.
Suspect daylight savings?
John
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** <STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> On Behalf Of Andrew Myles (amyles)
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 7:09 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Providing clarity on the November plenary
G’day Glenn
I should note that 9am – noon ET corresponds to:
• 6am-9am PT
• 2pm-5pm UK
• 3pm—6pm Europe
• 10pm-1am Beijing 9pm - midnight
• 11pm-2am Tokyo 10pm to 1am
• 1am-4am Sydney 11pm to
A more Asian focused alternative is 3pm-6pm ET
• 12pm-3pm PT
• 8pm-11pm UK
• 9pm—12am Europe
• 4am-7am Beijing 3am – 6am
• 5am-8am Tokyo 4am – 7am
• 7am-10am Sydney 5am – 8am
Or another even more Asian focused alternative is 4pm-7pm ET
• 1pm-4pm PT
• 9pm-12am UK
• 10pm—1am Europe
• 5am-8am Beijing 4am to 7am
• 6am-9am Tokyo 5am to 8am
• 8am-11am Sydney 6am to 9am
I am sure the majority wanted a time zone convenient to them. However, if we ae truly international then we will cater to the minority too. The last option above is reasonable for all and is Asian focused
Andrew
BTW I consider any time between 12am and 5am as unreasonable
From: Glenn Parsons <glenn.parsons@ericsson.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 21 July 2020 7:13 AM
To: Andrew Myles (amyles) <amyles@cisco.com>; STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [802SEC] Providing clarity on the November plenary
Andrew,
I suggested this before in 802.1. The meeting time should be the same time of where the in-person session was supposed to be. This was for the May interim which would have been PT.
However, in the 802.1 WG everyone who voiced an opinion spoke against my proposal. The counter was that the sweet spot (9am – noon ET) was the best time slot for all material time zones (which in 802.1 is: Europe, North America and Japan/China). So
I dropped it.
Cheers,
Glenn.
PS. A full view on the time zones is:
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** <STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> On Behalf Of Andrew Myles (amyles)
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 9:30 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Providing clarity on the November plenary
G’day all
Another interesting question is timing.
The IEEE 802 EC decided to hold IEEE 802 in a different locations around the world in recognition that IEEE 802 is international. The next plenary in Nov 2020 was scheduled for Bangkok.
There is a good case that EC and WG sessions in Nov 2020 should be scheduled for Bangkok time, which will be very painful for US participants but very convenient for Asian & European based participants. What is the counter case?
Andrew
FYI
The EC meeting this week is
• 1pm ET
• 3am where I live
• 12am in Bangkok
• 6pm in UK
In November it would be
• 1pm in Bangkok
• 5pm where I live
• 1am ET
• 6am in UK
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** <STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> On Behalf Of Steve Shellhammer
Sent: Monday, 20 July 2020 11:05 AM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Providing clarity on the November plenary
One question I have is if we hold an Electronic Plenary in November, would we make it one week or two weeks. A number of WGs fit their meetings within one week. Do we want to do that for everyone?
I do like having the WG opening on Friday before the week begins. That enables the WGs to start on Monday AM, which some chose to do for timing reasons. So Friday EC opening with a closing on Friday the following week seems okay to me.
I do like having the EC meetings like we did this time, when it is not 5 AM PDT.
I agree, no need to decide before Aug 4.
Regards,
Steve
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** <STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> On Behalf Of Benjamin A. Rolfe
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 5:49 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Providing clarity on the November plenary
CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization.
I concur with James' suggestion that July 23rd is too soon to decide on the schedule for November. While we have learned a great deal, to analyze the data before the experiment is completed compromises the results. 802.3, 802.18 and 802.19 have yet to
complete the scheduled meetings. The plenary will not be completed until Friday when the EC meeting ends. Putting the conclusion before the data analysis is not sound engineering.
For those who may want to evaluate the July experiment based on the actual experience, the extra 11 days time is valuable.
FWIW
Benjamin Rolfe (BCA)
On 7/19/2020 5:31 PM, James P. K. Gilb wrote:
George
My view, which has been consistent, is that we should wait for feedback from the WGs as our purpose is to enable them to operate as efficiently as possible.
I have not heard anyone state that we should wait until a certain time. I don't know anyone who has stated that we need to wait until August or later.
We should have the feedback by the August 4th meeting, perhaps sooner. That will enable us to make a decision in plenty of time for future planning.
The difference between a decision at the July 23rd meeting and the August 4th meeting is only 11 days.
If there is a _specific_ item that needs to be scheduled right now, I would be interested to hear what it is.
If attempt to decide without the necessary information, then it is more likey that we would need to change the schedule, which works counter to the argument that we need, right now, to nail down the times for the plenary.
James Gilb
On 7/17/20 3:31 PM, George Zimmerman wrote:
All -
I meant to get this out earlier, but the week has gotten away from me.
I would like to speak in support of providing clarity on the schedule and nature of the November IEEE 802 meeting. I have heard discussion of waiting until August, or even perhaps later to do this, and would advise against it. This is for several reasons:
First, our participants are asking. It is not just idle curiousity. They are trying to make plans for their own schedules and their own participation. I can personally tell you that what are minor changes in the schedule for 802 meetings in July has
made a mess of plans I made back in May. I have adjusted, but knowing about the schedule earlier would have avoided a bunch of work and juggling activities. Others plan meetings and reviews well in advance, and need the benefit of clarity in the 802 schedule
in order to maximize their participation.
Second, the leaders of our more active groups need to advance plan and synchronize multiple levels of effort. New activity (study group) initiation, PAR review, Task Force reviews, and Working group meetings all interlock with the plenary schedule. Things
work better when planned. We all appreciate a well-run meeting, and, if you're seeing what I'm seeing, these virtual meetings require more, not less work. We are generally quite good at making these things work seamlessly, but it is because a number of activities
are aligned well in advance - usually around the exit of the previous plenary cycle - which is now.
Finally, most of the input will be in by Friday. All of our working groups will have finished meeting. If there is critical input or data needed, let us identify it. Otherwise, we are just delaying a decision for a 'what if' case and incurring the penalty
of continued uncertainty which doesn't serve our participants well and makes our leaders' jobs harder.
Thanks for listening - it has been a long week.
George Zimmerman, Ph.D.
President & Principal
CME Consulting, Inc.
Experts in Advanced PHYsical Communications
george@cmephyconsulting.com<mailto:george@cmephyconsulting.com>
310-920-3860
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