Re: [STDS-802-16] [802.16n][DC] Discussion on Usages and Frame Structure for DC
Hi Eldad and all,
Sorry for the late reply, as I was on an oversea trip and just got back to office. I have a few comments as follows.
REGARDING USE CASES:
- One concern is the use of the terms "associated" and "coverage". We can have an HR-MS that is outside-of-coverage but can still be associated with an infrastructure node (through the help of a forwarding HR-MS). So for the 1st mode of HR-MS direct communications, when we say "Both HR-MSs are associated with an infrastructure node.", do we mean "association" or "coverage"?
- For HR-MS forwarding to network (we should not use "HR-MS local forwarding" as 16n SRD uses "local forwarding" to refer to a different scenario), I would like to add the 3rd mode of "Both HR-MSs are within the coverage of an infrastructure node". This can be beneficial when HR-MSs are power-limited.
REGARDING FRAME STRUCTURE:
I have the following opinions regarding Eldad's questions:
1) Are 2 HR-MS in the same cell allowed to transmit on the same resources (assuming that they are far enough)?
AT: This resource reuse should be encouraged, as long as mechanisms are provided to mitigate interference among HR-MS direct/forwarding transmissions. For such interference-mitigating mechanisms to work, we need neighbor discovery schemes to determine the distances between pairs of nodes.
2) Is the HR-BS allowed to re-use the same resources for its own DL transmissions or the UL transmissions of one of its HR-MS (assuming that the HR-MS is close enough to the HR-BS)?
AT: Similar to answer to question 1 with the note that interference mitigation will depend on whether HR-MS direct/forwarding transmissions are scheduled in DL or UL area of each frame.
3) Are these resources fixed for all cells?
AT: I believe that HR-MS direct communications and forwarding to network are opportunistic in nature. Therefore, resources should be dynamically allocated across space (cells), time/frequency (frames).
4) Can they change over time?
AT: Similar to answer to question 3.
Best regards,
Anh Tuan
________________________________
From: Zeira, Eldad [mailto:Eldad.Zeira@INTERDIGITAL.COM]
Sent: Wed 4/6/2011 8:42 PM
To: STDS-802-16@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-16] [802.16n][DC] Discussion on Usages and Frame Structure for DC
Hi All
Thanks, Sungcheol and Haiguang,
In order to keep same thread I'm commenting on both Sungcheol's email and Haiguang comment. Let's try to keep the number of threads to a minimum;
Regarding use cases:
I like Haiguang's proposal to separate the overview along SRD lines. To clarify what I think is the intent, I would like to modify that text (see below).
I also support Haiguang's statement that as the SRD doesn't discuss services then all scenarios should support all services.
Other than some minor editorials, the reasons for the suggested changes are as follows:
- AWD text shouldn't discuss usage which is up to implementation. We can discuss modes.
- I have used the term "infrastructure node" to refer to HR-BS or HR-RS.
- I have replaced "HR-MSs does not associate to HR-BS " with "Infrastructure nodes are absent". The latter is from the SRD, the former implies that HR-BS is present but the HR-MS ignore it which is not in the SRD.
The cleaned, revised text is therefore:
* Modes for HR-MS direct communication
- Both HR-MSs are associated with an infrastructure node.
- Infrastructure nodes are absent.
* Modes for HR-MS local forwarding
- One HR-MS is associated with an infrastructure node and one or more other HR-MSs are out of coverage of an infrastructure node.
Regarding frame structure:
One of the alternatives discussed by Sungcheol is a "DC specific frame structure including dedicated resource usage (Zone)"
I would like to ask the Sungcheol and the rest of the forum what is the meaning of this alternative, specifically:
1) Are 2 HR-MS in the same cell allowed to transmit on the same resources (assuming that they are far enough)?
2) Is the HR-BS allowed to re-use the same resources for its own DL transmissions or the UL transmissions of one of its HR-MS (assuming that the HR-MS is close enough to the HR-BS)?
3) Are these resources fixed for all cells?
4) Can they change over time?
Thanks and Best Regards,
Eldad
Office +1 631 622 4134
Mobile +1 631 428 4052
Based in NY area
-----Original Message-----
From: Wang Haiguang [mailto:hwang@I2R.A-STAR.EDU.SG]
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 5:55 AM
To: STDS-802-16@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-16] [802.16n][DC] Discussion on Usages and Frame Structure for DC
Hi, Sungcheol and all.
According the SRD, the system requirements for
direct communication (6.1.3.1) and HR-MS forwarding
(6.1.3.2) are defined in two separate sub-sections.
I think that we should define two separate sets of usages
for the direct communication and local forwarding as follows:
* Usages [EZ] Modes for HR-MS direct communication
- [EZ] Both HR-MSs are associated with an HR-BS infrastructure node.
- HR-MSs does not associate to HR-BS.[EZ] Infrastructure nodes are absent.
* Usages [EZ] Modes for HR-MS local forwarding
- One HR-MSs [EZ]is associated [EZ] with HR-BS infrastructure node and another one [EZ] one or more other HR-MSs are out of the coverage of HR-BS infrastructure nodes.
The direct communication and local forwarding should
be designed to support various applications, including
both data, video and voice since the SRD does not
make any constraint on the supported application.
Regards.
Haiguang
-----Original Message-----
From: Sungcheol Chang [mailto:scchang@etri.re.kr]
Sent: Wed 4/6/2011 8:48 AM
To: STDS-802-16@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [STDS-802-16] [802.16n][DC] Discussion on Usages and Frame Structure for DC
Dear 16n participants,
This is a kick-off mail for e-mail discussion on Usages and Frame Structure for direct communication
I suggest discussion guidelines as the followings:
- The subject of all the e-mails begins with the tag "[STDS-802-16] [802.16n][DC]" because DC RG has one e-mail discussion group now.
- Reply mails are expected to be within 24 hours because participants have different time zones.
- Any participants can add technical discussion issues for DC usage scenarios ad DC frame structure only.
[STDS-802-16] [802.16n][DC][Usage] Discussion on Usage Scenarios
There are three scenarios of direct communication (Let's focus on two HR-MSs at first)
1) Two HR-MSs under HR-BS coverage
2) One HR-MS under HR-BS coverage and The other HR-MS out of HR-BS coverage. (HR-MS forwarding)
3) Two HR-MSs in absent of HR-BS
[STDS-802-16] [802.16n][DC][Frame] Discussion on Frame Structure
Two cases of frame structure for direct communication
1) 16 frame structure including infrastructure frame structure and relay frame structure.
2) DC specific frame structure including dedicated resource usage (Zone)
Two cases of DC resource separation within 16 frame structure
1) TDM separation (Wideband approach)
2) FDM separation (Narrowband approach)
Note) Base on this kick-off e-mail, 16n participants concerning direct communication are encouraged to join this e-mail discussion actively.
Note) If participants want, participants can trigger e-mail discussion on other topic freely. Please use the other tag! (DC RG is not authorized to manage e-mail discussion among participants from 16n TG)
Best regards,
Sungcheol Chang