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Hi Guogang,
Thanks for this contribution. I have a few questions/comments:
* In the current spec, for a STA to go to power save mode a successful frame exchange should happen (e.g. Data with PM=1, and receiving ACK), however in your proposal you are setting the power save and sleep mode in beacon or probe response without acknowledgment, so it may not be received by some of the STAs of non-AP MLD due to different reasons. In this case, AP MLD goes to doze state while STAs are not notified of this change, so they stay awake and keep sending the UL frames.
* If you define a Sleep mode in addition to power save and active mode, then non-AP MLDs can have such a mode too in which it doesn't need to wake up for the DTIM beacon to save more power; in this case, AP MLD sends it's PM information only over the other link through RNR.
* What is the behavior if the AP of the AP-MLD is in power save mode but STA of the non-AP MLD operating on the same link switches to active mode (lets say AP sends the trigger frame after receiving the AAR control and STA sends the response with changing PM=0)? I think this is not defined in your doc.
Thanks,
Morteza
From: Yang, Zhijie (NSB - CN/Shanghai) <zhijie.yang@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 4:16 PM To: huangguogang <huangguogang1@xxxxxxxxxx>; 顾祥新 (Xiangxin Gu) <Xiangxin.Gu@xxxxxxxxxx>; Kaiying Lu <Kaiying.Lu@xxxxxxxxxxxx>; Jarkko Kneckt <jkneckt@xxxxxxxxx> Cc: STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Chunyu Hu <chunyuhu@xxxxxx>; Park, Minyoung <Minyoung.park@xxxxxxxxx>; Morteza Mehrnoush <mmehrnoush@xxxxxx>; Laurent Cariou <laurent.cariou@xxxxxxxxx>; Yonggang Fang <Yonggang.Fang@xxxxxxxxxxxx>; Rubayet Shafin <r.shafin@xxxxxxxxxxx>; Rojan Chitrakar <rojan.chitrakar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Liwen Chu <liwen.chu@xxxxxxx>; Abhishek Patil <appatil@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Gaurang Naik <gnaik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Srinivas Kandala <srini.k1@xxxxxxxxxxx>; Xiaofei Wang <Xiaofei.Wang@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; NEZOU Patrice <Patrice.Nezou@xxxxxxxxxxxx>; Ganming(Ming Gan) <ming.gan@xxxxxxxxxx> Subject: RE: Discussion on power save of AP MLD Hi Guangguo,
I’m asking the unassociated legacy STA connection issue, you answer on the non-AP MLD staff…
Hi Guogang, Gaurang, Arik,
I see all of you have different proposals to indicate the AP unavaible state for all kinds of reason, I believe each scenario is important during the online/offline talk. I’m considering whether we can have a uniform solution to cover so many different scenarios, or do we really need one proposal match one case? For me, I prefer to former one.
Thanks
Best Regards
Jay Yang
From: huangguogang <huangguogang1@xxxxxxxxxx>
Hi Jay,
Thanks for your question. Please find my response inline.
Regards Guogang Huang
发件人: Yang,
Zhijie (NSB - CN/Shanghai) [mailto:zhijie.yang@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Hi Guoguang,
l the AP operating in the power save mode may need periodically to wake up and transmit the Beacon frame Please note such design will cause the legacy STA connection failure issue if it intends to set up connection based on the received Beacon. That’s why 802.11 specification has the AP always powering on. [Guogang Huang]For this question, I add the following note to explain it in my contribution. To optimize the multi-link performance, especially in the enterprise scenario, I think it is useful to manage the non-MLD STAs and only allow them to associate in specified links.
Thanks
Best Regards
Jay Yang
From: huangguogang <huangguogang1@xxxxxxxxxx>
Hi Xiangxin,
Thanks for your questions. Please find my response inline.
Regards Guogang Huang
发件人:
顾祥新 (Xiangxin Gu) [mailto:Xiangxin.Gu@xxxxxxxxxx]
Hi Guogang,
Thanks for the interesting proposal!
I have questions to expand the mechanism to AP MLD besides mobile AP MLD:
[Guogang Huang]Good question. Maybe we can consider the following approaches to address this issue: l the AP operating in the power save mode may need periodically to wake up and transmit the Beacon frame l Or the non-AP MLD may decide whether it sends a wakeup request according to some kind of the link quality estimation. When the AP in the power save mode transitions from the doze state to the awake state, then the AP can transmit the Beacon frame or do the channel sounding on that link.
[Guogang Huang]In this case, I suggest when a reported AP is operating in the power save mode or the sleep mode, only the MLD parameters subfield is carried. As I mention before, if we allow the AP in the power save mode to periodically wake up to send the Beacon frame, then your question can be resolved. For this part, I’m open to discuss.
From: huangguogang <huangguogang1@xxxxxxxxxx>
Hi Kaiying,
Thanks for your discussion. Please find my response inline.
Regards Guogang Huang
发件人: Kaiying
Lu [mailto:Kaiying.Lu@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Hi Guogang,
Thanks for the contribution.
I have two general comments for clarification first.
Do you mean that the AP is not allowed to transition between doze and awake itself? [Guogang Huang]Maybe I get your point. You mean if the AP MLD has DL buffered BU, it also can transition from the doze state to the awake state, right? I agree with you and will fix it in the next revision.
What do you mean by “AP is always in the doze state”? Can the AP be awake at some point? Otherwise, the AP is just as disabled. [Guogang Huang]This mode is used in the following use cases, e.g. the AP maintenance and regulatory reasons. During this period, I think the AP cannot be ready. But when the maintenance is finished, the AP can switch from the sleep mode to the active mode or the power save mode.
Please correct me if I misunderstood something.
Thanks, Kaiying From: Jarkko Kneckt <jkneckt@xxxxxxxxx>
Hi Guogang, thank you for your contribution. I have two comments:
1. 802.11be has disabled link concept that (no TIDs mapped to a link) could be used to enable long term affiliated AP sleep. - I am wondering could the AP sleep mode be implemented by using disabled links?
2. Typically regular APs have not operated in power save, but have supported aggressive power save of the STAs. - Have you considered to make power save enhancements (mode 10) to be available only for the NSTR Mobile APs? - I think mobile APs could have more aggressive power save mechanisms.
Cheers, Jarkko
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