Hi Hanqing,
Thanks for the response, it seems that we are all aligned now, I’ve uploaded a new revision, and plan to run the SP in the next MAC call.
Thanks all for the discussion.
Best,
Jason
发件人: Hanqing Lou [mailto:Hanqing.Lou@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
发送时间: 2022年8月28日 3:26
收件人: Guoyuchen (Jason Yuchen Guo) <guoyuchen@xxxxxxxxxx>; STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
主题: RE: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] 1073-00-00be-LB266-CR-for-35.13-Intra-PPDU-Power-Save
Jason,
I agree with you. I read again, it seems rules defined in 26.14.1 identified several conditions to enable intra-BSS power save mode. If no condition met, a non-AP STA can’t go to power save mode, e.g., DL sounding NDP case.
Best regards,
Hanqing
From: Guoyuchen (Jason Yuchen Guo) <guoyuchen@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2022 5:33 AM
To: Hanqing Lou <Hanqing.Lou@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: re: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] 1073-00-00be-LB266-CR-for-35.13-Intra-PPDU-Power-Save
Hi Hanqing, Yongho and all,
Thanks for the discussion. After further thinking, I think is it better to keep the current spec text without making any change (i.e., without adding HE SU and HE ER SU) with the following reasons:
- Technically, no extra condition is added, but adding “HE SU PPDU and HE ER SU PPDU” may make people think that some new conditions are added, we’d better avoid this confusion.
- Putting sounding NDPs aside, both EHT MU PPDU and HE MU PPDU have the parameter of STA_ID, hence we should use the conditions of HE MU PPDU for EHT MU PPDU
- In the case of sounding NDPs, 11ax uses HE SU PPDU as sounding NDP, while 11be uses EHT MU PPDU as sounding NDP.
- 11ax UL sounding NDP can be used for intra-PPDU PS according to the following rule:
- 11ax UL sounding NDP can be used for intra-PPDU PS according to the following rule:
i. 
- Base on the current text in 11be, the following rule will be true:
i. 
- Hence, 11be UL sounding NDP can also be used for intra-PPDU PS, which aligns with 11ax.
Please let me know your further thoughts if any.
Best,
Jason Yuchen Guo
发件人: Hanqing Lou [mailto:00001af7734dda91-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
发送时间: 2022年8月26日 21:37
收件人:
STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
主题: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] 1073-00-00be-LB266-CR-for-35.13-Intra-PPDU-Power-Save
Thanks for the response. I read 26.14.1 (Intra-PPDU power save for non-AP HE STAs) in 11ax again. It seems following HE MU PPDU rule, a non-AP STA still checks UPLINK_FLAG parameter. Actually, no rule in 26.14.1 just applied to HE SU PPDU
but not applied to HE MU PPDU. So removing
"HE SU PPDU, or HE ER SU PPDU (#13042)" should be fine.
For Sounding NDP, there was no rule applied to it explicitly in 26.14.1 in 11ax. An EHT Sounding NDP is an EHT MU PPDU. Based on current text (no matter we include
“HE SU PPDU” or not), when receiving an EHT Sounding NDP, we have UPLINK_FLAG set to 0 or 1, but
no STA_ID. If the UPLINK_FLAG is 1 and receiving STAs treat it as an EHT MU PPDU, there is no rule to follow. Since NDP does not contain Data field, there is no need for receiving STAs to perform intra-BSS power saving. We could make it explicit in 11be.
From: Yongho Seok <yongho.seok@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2022 4:38 PM
To: Hanqing Lou <Hanqing.Lou@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] 1073-00-00be-LB266-CR-for-35.13-Intra-PPDU-Power-Save
If we don't add "HE SU PPDU, or HE ER SU PPDU (#13042)", question about the EHT Sounding NDP PPDU is addressed.
And, if we add an HE SU PPDU, it can cause another ambiguity.
Especially, for a direct link transmission, in 11ax, we uses the HE SU PPDU for the direct link transmission. So, it can be interpreted that the rule of the
HE SU PPDU is applied to 11be.
However, in 11be, the EHT MU PPDU is used for a direct link transmission, and the UL/DL is set to 0. In this case, the receiver should check the AID of the EHT
MU PPDU before entering an intra-PPDU power saving. In consequence, the rule of HE MU PPDU should be applied to 11be direct link transmission. But, if we add an HE SU PPDU, how to choose the rule applied to EHT MU PPDU among the HE SU PPDU, HE MU PPDU is unclear
and additional clarification is required.
Thanks,
Yongho
2022년 8월 25일 (목)
오전 11:35, Hanqing Lou <00001af7734dda91-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>님이
작성:
Jason and Alfred,
Thanks for presenting and commenting the CR document 1173. I have two comments based on the discussion today.
Alfred had a good point that EHT MU PPDU includes STA ID field and thus a STA should follow HE MU PPDU rule to perform intra -PPDU power save mechanism when it receives an EHT MU PPDU. EHT sounding NDP PPDU is considered as a special case of EHT MU PPDU, however it does not have STA ID subfield in its EHT SIG field. I checked 11ax, and it seems sounding NDP PPDU was not mentioned in 26.14.1 (Intra-PPDU power save for non-AP HE STAs). I don’t think a intra BSS STA needs to perform intra PPDU power save when it receives an EHT sounding NDP PPDU. I suggest making this explicit in 11be. For example, we could say
— The conditions that apply to an HE MU PPDU, HE SU PPDU, or HE ER SU PPDU (#13042) shall also apply to an EHT MU PPDU that is not a EHT sounding NDP PPDU, …
Base on description in 26.14.1 in 11ax, a non-AP STA may enter to the doze state if it receives an intra-BSS UL PPDU. In this case, the non-AP STA needs to check BSS_COLOR and UPLINK_FLAG (this is a rule under HE SU PPDU category. For EHT case, we should also allow the non-AP STA entering the doze state by checking { BSS_COLOR, UPLINK_FLAG} or { BSS_COLOR, STA_ID} when it receives a EHT MU PPDU. So I think Jason’s original version should be fine
Best regards,
Hanqing
From: Guoyuchen (Jason Yuchen Guo) <000018696e95f088-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2022 7:22 AM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] TGbe July Hybrid: Updated agenda posted
Hi Alfred Could you please add the following contributions into the agenda? Thank you. 11-22-1059-00-00be-LB266-CR-for-10.8 (MAC)11-22-1073-00-00be-LB266-CR-for-35.13-Intra-PPDU-Power-Save (MAC) Regards,Jason Yuchen Guo 发件人: Alfred Asterjadhi [mailto:asterjadhi@xxxxxxxxx]发送时间: 20
Hi Alfred
Could you please add the following contributions into the agenda? Thank you.
11-22-1059-00-00be-LB266-CR-for-10.8 (MAC)
11-22-1073-00-00be-LB266-CR-for-35.13-Intra-PPDU-Power-Save (MAC)
Regards,
Jason Yuchen Guo
发件人: Alfred Asterjadhi [mailto:asterjadhi@xxxxxxxxx]
发送时间: 2022年7月11日 1:05
收件人: STDS-802-11-TGBE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
主题: [STDS-802-11-TGBE] TGbe July Hybrid: Updated agenda posted
Hello all,
I uploaded a revised version of the agenda for this week: 11-22/862r1
I included all DCNs for which i have received requests (or found a DCN in mentor) in the submissions list and populated the agendas for Monday AM1 and PM1 with submissions that have been posted.
Please let me know when additional submissions are posted so that i can add to the agendas.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Regards,
Alfred
--
Alfred Asterjadhi, PhD
IEEE802.11 TGbe Chair,
Qualcomm Technologies Inc.
Cell #: +1 858 263 9445
Office #: +1 858 658 5302
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