Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] TGbf meeting on July 27 (Tuesday), 10:00am

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Hi Tony,

Sure. Based on the feedback and discussions in the email thread, please update the motion text to the following:

• Move to add the following to 11bf SFD:

11bf shall define a Trigger-based sensing measurement instance including the following:

A polling process where an AP sends a Trigger frame to check the availability of STAs. If a STA is available, it responds with a CTS-to-self..
UL sounding, in which an AP sends a Trigger frame to solicit NDP transmission(s) from STA(s), shall be present if at least one STA that is a sensing transmitter responds in the polling.
DL sounding, in which an AP sends NDPA frame followed by NDP to STA(s), shall be present if at least one STA that is a sensing receiver responds in the polling.
The order of the UL and DL sounding is TBD.
The details of the format of the Trigger frame and the NDPA frame are TBD.

Note: This is for HE/EHT STAs. Methods to support other STAs are TBD.

Best,

Cheng

From: Hanxiao (Tony, WT Lab) <tony.hanxiao@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2021 8:01 PM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] 答复: TGbf meeting on July 27 (Tuesday), 10:00am – 12:00pm ET

Hi Cheng,

If you have some modification for the Motion text, would please send out the updated version? So that I could request the approval from the WG chair to run the motionJ

Best Regards : )

Tony Xiao Han

发件人: Rojan Chitrakar [mailto:rojan.chitrakar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
发送时间: 2021年7月29日 11:42
收件人: STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
主题: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] TGbf meeting on July 27 (Tuesday), 10:00am – 12:00pm ET

Hi Cheng,

Thank you for the clarification. While the exclusion of pre-HE STAs are implied, yes if you could include the Note in your motion text, it will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Regards,

Rojan

From: Chen, Cheng <cheng.chen@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2021 1:03 AM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] TGbf meeting on July 27 (Tuesday), 10:00am – 12:00pm ET

Hi Rojan,

I agree with Dibakar, the use of “Trigger frame” here implicitly implies that this is basically for HE/EHT STAs. I can add the following note to clarify if you want:

Note: This is for HE/EHT STAs. Methods to support other STAs are TBD.

Best,

Cheng

From: Das, Dibakar <dibakar.das@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2021 7:08 AM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] TGbf meeting on July 27 (Tuesday), 10:00am – 12:00pm ET

Hi Rojan,

I think there is no dependency between 11az and 11bf in the sense that a HE STA is NOT required to implement 11az first in order to implement 11bf. There are some common tools that can be used but the sequence itself need not be the same.

Wrt the note, in my understanding the term “Trigger” with capital “T” is used only for 11ax Trigger frames and not the term “trigger” that is used in 11md e.g., in U-APSD section.

Regards,

Dibakar

From: Rojan Chitrakar <rojan.chitrakar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2021 9:44 PM
To: Das, Dibakar <dibakar.das@xxxxxxxxx>; STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: TGbf meeting on July 27 (Tuesday), 10:00am – 12:00pm ET

Hi Dibakar,

Well, that was exactly my clarification question: “I believe the motion is based on 11az ranging procedure and STAs that do not support/implement 11az will not be able to participate, right?”

So is this procedure also meant to be applicable for HE STAs that do not implement 11az? I personally do not have any issues with that if that is indeed Cheng’s intention/preference.

While it may indeed be implied that pre-HE STAs cannot use this, I would prefer it to be made explicit to avoid confusions/discussions later on. If HE STAs are also meant to be covered, I am fine to change the Note to pre-HE STAs.

Note: The above Trigger-based sensing measurement instance is optional for pre-11ax STAs.

Btw, from the motion text it is not 100% clear that the Trigger frame being discussed is indeed HE trigger frames. Note that the term trigger frames are used in pre-HE baseline (e.g., in U-APSD).

o The details of the format of the Trigger frame and the NDPA frame are TBD.

Regards,

Rojan

From: Das, Dibakar <dibakar.das@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2021 12:03 PM
To: Rojan Chitrakar <rojan.chitrakar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: TGbf meeting on July 27 (Tuesday), 10:00am – 12:00pm ET

Hi Rojan,

Trigger frames were developed for 11ax STAs. Is it not implied pre-HE STAs cant use this ?

Regards,

Dibakar

From: Rojan Chitrakar <rojan.chitrakar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2021 9:01 PM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] TGbf meeting on July 27 (Tuesday), 10:00am – 12:00pm ET

Hi Cheng,

I also have a question regarding the motion; as we discussed in the past, I believe the motion is based on 11az ranging procedure and STAs that do not support/implement 11az will not be able to participate, right?

If so, could we make that clear in the motion text, perhaps as a Note:

Note: The above Trigger-based sensing measurement instance is optional for pre-11az STAs.

Thanks.

Regards,

Rojan

From: Chen, Cheng <cheng.chen@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2021 11:46 AM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] TGbf meeting on July 27 (Tuesday), 10:00am – 12:00pm ET

Hi Xiandong,

The word “optional” basically means the presence of UL and DL sounding depends on whether there is at least one sensing transmitter or sensing receiver that responds in the polling process. If there is no STA that is a sensing transmitter responded in the polling, then there is no UL sounding part; if there is no STA that is a sensing receiver responded in the polling, there is no DL sounding part.

Best,

Cheng

From: 董贤东 <dongxiandong@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2021 8:07 PM
To: Chen, Cheng <cheng.chen@xxxxxxxxx>; STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: 答复: TGbf meeting on July 27 (Tuesday), 10:00am – 12:00pm ET

Hi Cheng,

I have a clarification question regarding the wording “optional” in 2^nd bullet and 3^rd bullet of the motion text, my interpretation is that a STA can optionally send the UL sounding frame even though it indicated its availability and transmitted in the polling procedure.

Best Regards,

Xiandong Dong

发件人: Chen, Cheng <cheng.chen@xxxxxxxxx>
发送时间: 2021年7月27日 23:27
收件人: STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
主题: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] TGbf meeting on July 27 (Tuesday), 10:00am – 12:00pm ET

Hi Tony,

I would like to submit the following motion request based on the SP result (26Y 0N 13A) I ran today.

Motion:

Move to add the following to 11bf SFD:

· 11bf shall define a Trigger-based sensing measurement instance including the following:

o A polling process where an AP sends a Trigger frame to check the availability of STAs. If a STA is available, it responds with a CTS-to-self.

o An optional UL sounding where an AP sends a Trigger frame to solicit NDP transmission(s) from STA(s).

§ The UL sounding is present if at least one STA that is a sensing transmitter responds in the polling.

o An optional DL sounding where an AP sends NDPA frame followed by NDP to STA(s).

§ The DL sounding is present if at least one STA that is a sensing receiver responds in the polling.

o The order of the UL and DL sounding is TBD.

o The details of the format of the Trigger frame and the NDPA frame are TBD.

Best,

Cheng

From: Hanxiao (Tony, WT Lab) <tony.hanxiao@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2021 4:17 AM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] TGbf meeting on July 27 (Tuesday), 10:00am – 12:00pm ET

Dear all,

This is a reminder and call for submissions for the upcoming meeting on July 27 (Tuesday), 10:00am – 12:00pm ET.

Please note:

Please send the agenda request at least 24 hours prior to the call, following the format below:

• DCN, Title, Author (affiliation), Time duration

~~I will cancel the call if there is no request received 24 hours prior to a call.~~
Please upload your submissions (revision 0) on mentor 24 hours prior to the meeting so that members would have a chance to review those submissions offline. Otherwise,

If there is not enough time during the meeting, the presentation will be delayed to the next meeting.
If there is enough time during the meeting, the presentation will be moved to the end of the queue and be presented in the end. However, any related SP should be delayed to the next meeting.

Please send the motion request around 10+5 days before the meeting (for teleconference, not for Plenary or Interim meeting), so that the TG chair could send the 10 day advance notice to the 802.11 reflector, after getting the approval from the WG chair.

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Best Regards : )

Tony Xiao Han

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