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Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] Motion request

Hi Rojan,

 

I am fine with that. Thanks again for the good comments and suggestions.

 

Best,

Cheng

 

From: Rojan Chitrakar <rojan.chitrakar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2021 8:13 PM
To: Chen, Cheng <cheng.chen@xxxxxxxxx>; STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Motion request

 

Hi Cheng,

 

Thanks for the clarification regarding your consideration in not using UL/DL. I am fine with that, as long as I2R and R2I do not imply 11az NDP. I believe you still need to differentiate between the two NDPs, right? If you want to keep the 2 terms as generic terms to indicate the NDP direction, perhaps the note can be modified as below then:

  • I2R/R2I NDP formats are TBD.

 

Regards,

Rojan

 

From: Chen, Cheng <cheng.chen@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2021 12:09 AM
To: Rojan Chitrakar <rojan.chitrakar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Motion request

 

Hi Rojan,

 

Thanks for your comments.

 

First of all, the motion text is definitely not trying to restrict the NDP formats to a specific one. I understand that currently the formats of the NDP are still pending discussions and not decided yet, similar to the NDPF frame format. We already have a few contributions from multiple members talking about this topic and we will see which format we eventually choose. Therefore, I am fine to add the note saying “NDP formats are TBD”.

 

Regarding changing the I2R and R2I to UL and DL. I believe we talked about this when we were discussing the TB measurement instance. Originally I was also using the word “UL NDP sounding” and “DL NDP sounding” in TB measurement instance, but then after discussions in 11bf we changed the wording to “TF sounding” and “NDPA sounding” respectively. Following the same ideas, I am trying not to use “UL” and “DL” here in non-TB measurement sequence. I think as long as we make it clear that “NDP formats are TBD”, then we don’t have the confusion that the I2R and R2I NDP here are restricted to HE Ranging NDP, which is not our intention either.

 

Regarding your other editorial suggestions, I am fine with them.

 

Best,

Cheng

 

From: Rojan Chitrakar <rojan.chitrakar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, December 9, 2021 9:35 PM
To: Chen, Cheng <cheng.chen@xxxxxxxxx>; STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Motion request

 

Dear Cheng,

 

Sorry, I couldn’t attend the session where the SP was ran and couldn’t provide my feedback earlier.

I have some concerns on the use of the terms “I2R NDP” and “R2I NDP”, is it necessary to limit the NDP to the HE ranging PPDU format? I2R NDP and R2I NDP restricts the usage to 160 MHz. E.g., the NDP could very well be EHT sounding PPDU also which can go up to 320 MH, right. I believe its not your intention to restrict the usage of other NDPs, e.g. EHT NDP.

 

I suggest we simply use UL/DL NDP instead and also clarify that the NDP format is TBD, as is done in other motions in the SFD. I believe the meaning of the motion stays the same. Something like below:

 

Move to add the following to the TGbf SFD:

    • 11bf shall define a non-Trigger based (non-TB) sensing measurement instance as follows:
      • One non-AP STA is the sensing initiator and one AP is the sensing responder.
      • Once the non-AP STA obtains a TXOP, it shall initiates a non-TB sensing measurement instance by transmitting an NDPA frame to the AP followed by an UL Initiator-to-Responder (I2R) NDP after SIFS after. SIFS after the UL I2R NDP, the AP shall transmit a DL Responder-to-Initiator (R2I) NDP to the non-AP STA.
      • If the non-AP STA is only the sensing transmitter, then the NDPA frame should configure the UL R2I NDP to be transmitted with minimum possible length with one LTF symbol.
      • If the non-AP STA is only the sensing receiver, then the NDPA frame should configure the DL I2R NDP to be transmitted with minimum possible length with one LTF symbol.
      • The details of the NDPA frame are TBD.
      • NDP formats are TBD.

 

Regards,

Rojan

 

From: Chen, Cheng <cheng.chen@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, December 8, 2021 9:32 AM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] Motion request

 

Hi Tony,

 

I received an offline comment and would like to update the motion text as follows.

 

Move to add the following to the TGbf SFD:

    • 11bf shall define a non-Trigger based (non-TB) sensing measurement instance as follows:
      • One non-AP STA is the sensing initiator and one AP is the sensing responder.
      • Once the non-AP STA obtains a TXOP, it shall initiates a non-TB sensing measurement instance by transmitting an NDPA frame to the AP followed by an Initiator-to-Responder (I2R) NDP SIFS after. SIFS after the I2R NDP, the AP shall transmit a Responder-to-Initiator (R2I) NDP to the non-AP STA.
      • If the non-AP STA is only the sensing transmitter, then the NDPA frame should configure the R2I NDP to be transmitted with minimum possible length with one LTF symbol.
      • If the non-AP STA is only the sensing receiver, then the NDPA frame should configure the I2R NDP to be transmitted with minimum possible length with one LTF symbol.
      • The details of the NDPA frame are TBD.

 

The comment is that the current text may confuse people because it sounds like whenever a non-AP STA gets a TXOP, it must always initiate a non-TB sensing measurement instance, which is surely not what I am trying to propose. The modified text will avoid such confusion and make it more clear.

 

Best,

Cheng

 

From: Chen, Cheng
Sent: Tuesday, December 7, 2021 7:49 AM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Motion request

 

Hi Tony,

 

I would appreciate if you could run the motion below in a future meeting as appropriate. Thanks.

The reference document is 11-21/1433r2.  SP result was 19/4/13.

 

Move to add the following to the TGbf SFD:

    • 11bf shall define a non-Trigger based (non-TB) sensing measurement instance as follows:
      • One non-AP STA is the sensing initiator and one AP is the sensing responder.
      • Once the non-AP STA obtains a TXOP, it shall initiate a non-TB sensing measurement instance by transmitting an NDPA frame to the AP followed by an Initiator-to-Responder (I2R) NDP SIFS after. SIFS after the I2R NDP, the AP shall transmit a Responder-to-Initiator (R2I) NDP to the non-AP STA.
      • If the non-AP STA is only the sensing transmitter, then the NDPA frame should configure the R2I NDP to be transmitted with minimum possible length with one LTF symbol.
      • If the non-AP STA is only the sensing receiver, then the NDPA frame should configure the I2R NDP to be transmitted with minimum possible length with one LTF symbol.
      • The details of the NDPA frame are TBD.

 

 

Best,

Cheng

 

 

From: Claudio Da Silva <000015f3cbee3aeb-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2021 10:59 AM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] Motion request

 

Tony,

 

I would appreciate if you could run the motion below in a future meeting as appropriate.

The reference document is 11-21/1692r4.  SP result was 30/2/8.

Thanks,

 

Claudio

 

 

Move to add the following to the TGbf SFD:

 

A sensing by proxy (SBP) procedure is defined in which:

  • An “SBP request” consists of a non-AP STA sending an SBP Request frame to an SBP-capable AP STA.
    • An STA that sends an SBP Request frame to invoke SBP (and, as a result, WLAN sensing) is denoted by “SBP requesting STA”.
    • The format and contents of the SBP Request frame are TBD.
  • An AP STA that receives an SBP request shall send to the SBP requesting STA an SBP Response frame to accept or reject the request.
    • The format and contents of the SBP Response frame are TBD.
  • An AP STA that accepts an SBP request shall initiate WLAN sensing procedure(s) with one or more non-AP STA(s) using operational parameters derived from those indicated within the SBP Request frame.
  • Measurement results obtained in WLAN sensing procedure(s) resultant from an SBP request shall be reported to the SBP requesting STA.

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