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Re: [STDS-802-11] 11-22/0652

--- This message came from the IEEE 802.11 Working Group Reflector ---

Hi Youhan,

 

Thanks for the discussion in the REVme meeting last Thursday.

 

I read the specs again. The current spec (REVme D1.0 P4242L1) does not specify that the PSR value is applied to each 20 MHz subchannel of 40 MHz subband for an 80+80 MHz  or 160 MHz PPDU. Please see highlighted part of paragraphs below.

 

 

If we want to have PSR value applied to each 20 MHz subchannel of 40 MHz subband, we should update this part of the spec. Otherwise, it is quite confusing.

 

Thanks,

Zinan

 

 

From: Yujian (Ross Yu) <00001792b51ef4ea-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2022 11:38 PM
To: STDS-802-11@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [STDS-802-11] 答复: 11-22/0652

 

--- This message came from the IEEE 802.11 Working Group Reflector ---

 

Hi Zinan,

 

I think in 11be the agreement is to make every PSR value per 20MHz, and the action item at that time is to do similar things for 11ax too when we go to Revme.

 

regards

于健 Ross Jian Yu

Huawei Technologies

 

发件人: Zinan Lin [mailto:000019c80da359b9-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
发送时间: 2022年5月11日 9:34
收件人: STDS-802-11@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
主题: Re: [STDS-802-11] 11-22/0652

 

--- This message came from the IEEE 802.11 Working Group Reflector ---

Hi Youhan,

 

I have the different understanding about the UL Spatial Reuse subfield of Trigger frame. Below is the text from REVmeD1.0. It clearly indicates that “the UL Spatial Reuse subfield of the Common Info field of the Trigger frame … for each 40 MHz subchannel for an 80+80 MHz or 160 MHz by selecting the row in Table 27-23….” The definitions of Tx_PWR_AP and Acceptable receiver Interference Level_AP consistently follow the definition of the UL Spatial Reuse subfield. Nothing in the texts specifies the unit of PSR is per 20 MHz.

 

 

Thanks,

Zinan

 

 

From: Youhan Kim <youhank@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2022 1:58 PM
To: STDS-802-11@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-11] 11-22/0652

 

--- This message came from the IEEE 802.11 Working Group Reflector ---

 

Hi, Zinan.

 

Regarding #2 in your first email in this thread,

As indicated in 26.10.3.4 (P4242L1, REVme D1.0), UL Spatial Reuse subfield of Trigger frame is defined for each 40 MHz  subchannel for an 80+80MHz or 160 MHz PPDU. The Spatial Reuse subfields of HE-SIG-A field of an HE TB PPDU should follow this definition, i.e.,  Spatial Reuse value is applied to 40MHz subband of the 160MHz band. Therefore, when the PSRR PPDU is 160MHz, to get PSR for 20 MHz subchannel, it needs to normalize the PSR value of the UL Spatial Reuse subfield in the Common Info field of the Trigger frame of the PSRR PPDU to 20 MHz subchannel. The NOTE in the 11-22/0652r3 explained this already.

our understanding is that the PSR value is still in units of “/20 MHz” even for 160 and 80+80 MHz HE PPDUs.  It is just that the lowest two 20 MHz (40 MHz in total) share the same PSR value (which is in units of “/20MHz”), and the next two 20 MHz share the same PSR value, etc.

 

Hence, I suggest that in 11-22/652r3:

  • “Each PSR value is specified per 20 MHz.” à “Each PSR value has unit of X / 20 MHz.”
    • We need to clarify what X is, which is CID 2240
  • Delete the NOTE at the end of 11j-22/652r3.

 

 

Thanks.

Youhan

 

From: Youhan Kim <youhank@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2022 6:43 AM
To: ross.yujian@xxxxxxxxxx; STDS-802-11@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: 11-22/0652

 

Thanks, Zinan and Ross.

 

May I know if 802.11be or 802.11ax specs specifies “preamble of PSRR PPDU is present” is equivalent to the non-punctured subchannel(s) in PSRR PPDU?

A punctured subchannel must not have any signal present, including any preamble.

Therefore, if there is preamble present in a 20 MHz channel, then that 20 MHz channel cannot be a punctured subchannel.

 

  1. I am concerned about requiring the preamble presence in both PSRR PPDU and PSRT PPDU. Since the formula is used to set the upper bound of PSRT PPDU transmission power, how can the PSRT PPDU be present when the measurement is made prior to the first transmission?

Therefore, I would like to have the following update on the text:

 

RPL_(PSRR,20MHz ) in the unit of dBm/20 MHz is the normalized received signal power measured at the antenna connector in one or more 20 MHz subchannels. The measured 20 MHz subchannel(s) shall be the subchannel(s) on which the PSRT PPDU transmission intends to occupy and the preamble of the PSRR PPDU is present. The measurement method is implementation dependent.  

As you pointed out, it is not practical to assume that a STA would know which 20 MHz channel(s) would be used for PSRT PPDU transmission while receiving a PSRR PPDU.

That is why my proposed text said “at least one 20 MHz subchannel in which the preamble of both the PSRR PPDU and the PSRT PPDU are present”.  Since a STA would transmit a PSRT PPDU using at least the primary 20 MHz channel included, a reasonable/practical implementation measuring the signal power of a PSRR PPDU at the primary 20 MHz channel of the STA would still be able to transmit the PSRT PPDU in this case.

 

In your proposed text, however, there is a “shall” requirement that the signal power of PSRR PPDU is measured over the subchannels used by the PSRT PPDU.  I.e., your proposal actually requires that a STA knows the PSRT PPDU BW when receiving a PSRR PPDU.

 

Hence, I prefer my proposed language.

 

Thanks.

Youhan

 

 

From: Yujian (Ross Yu) <00001792b51ef4ea-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2022 6:38 PM
To: STDS-802-11@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [STDS-802-11] 答复: 11-22/0652

 

WARNING: This email originated from outside of Qualcomm. Please be wary of any links or attachments, and do not enable macros.

--- This message came from the IEEE 802.11 Working Group Reflector ---

Hi Zinan,

 

Thanks for the contribution and update. Both your version and Youhan’s version look good to me.

 

regards

于健 Ross Jian Yu

Huawei Technologies

 

发件人: Zinan Lin [mailto:000019c80da359b9-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
发送时间: 2022年5月4日 10:07
收件人: STDS-802-11@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
主题: Re: [STDS-802-11] 11-22/0652

 

--- This message came from the IEEE 802.11 Working Group Reflector ---

Youhan,

 

Thanks for your suggestions. I have a few in line comments on your suggestions.

 

Best,

Zinan

 

 

From: Youhan Kim <youhank@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2022 1:49 AM
To: STDS-802-11@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; Zinan Lin <Zinan.Lin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; ross.yujian@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: 11-22/0652

 

 

Hi, Zinan.

 

Thank you very much for the document.

 

  1. The definition ofRPLPSRR,20MHz  is updated as follows:

 

RPLPSRR,20MHz is the received signal power at the receive antenna connector in the nonpunctured 20 MHz subchannel in dBm. It can be the received signal power at the received antenna connector in at least one nonpunctured 20 MHz subchannel within the overlapping bandwidth of the PSRR PPDU and the PSRT PPDU, or the received signal power at the received antenna connector in the nonpunctured 20 MHz subchannels within the overlapping bandwidth of the PSRR PPDU and the PSRT PPDU normalized to a 20 MHz subchannel. The identification of the overlapping bandwidth is implementation dependent.

 

The most important thing is to be clear that the unit of RPL_{PSRR,20MHz} is dBm/20MHz.  How one computes it is implementation specific, except that I agree with you that 20 MHz subchannels which are used in both the PSRR and PSRT should be used.  Therefore, my suggestion is

RPLPSRR,20MHz is the received signal power at the receive antenna connector in the nonpunctured 20 MHz subchannel in dBm measured in dBm/20 MHz. It can be the received signal power at the received antenna connector in shall be measured in at least one nonpunctured 20 MHz subchannel within the overlapping bandwidth of in which the preamble of both the PSRR PPDU and the PSRT PPDU are present, or the received signal power at the received antenna connector in the nonpunctured 20 MHz subchannels within the overlapping bandwidth of the PSRR PPDU and the PSRT PPDU normalized to a 20 MHz subchannel. The identification of the overlapping bandwidth measurement method is implementation dependent.

 

[ZL]

  1. May I know if 802.11be or 802.11ax specs specifies “preamble of PSRR PPDU is present” is equivalent to the non-punctured subchannel(s) in PSRR PPDU?
  2. I am concerned about requiring the preamble presence in both PSRR PPDU and PSRT PPDU. Since the formula is used to set the upper bound of PSRT PPDU transmission power, how can the PSRT PPDU be present when the measurement is made prior to the first transmission?

Therefore, I would like to have the following update on the text:

 

RPL_(PSRR,20MHz ) in the unit of dBm/20 MHz is the normalized received signal power measured at the antenna connector in one or more 20 MHz subchannels. The measured 20 MHz subchannel(s) shall be the subchannel(s) on which the PSRT PPDU transmission intends to occupy and the preamble of the PSRR PPDU is present. The measurement method is implementation dependent.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I still need more time to review your #2.

 

Regards,

Youhan

 

From: Zinan Lin <Zinan.Lin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, May 2, 2022 11:09 AM
To: Youhan Kim <youhank@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; ross.yujian@xxxxxxxxxx
Cc: STDS-802-11@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: FW: 11-22/0652

 

WARNING: This email originated from outside of Qualcomm. Please be wary of any links or attachments, and do not enable macros.

Hi Youhan and Ross,

Per the requirement of REVme minutes (11-22/0679r0), I am resending the discussion email to the reflector.

 

Thanks,

Zinan

 

From: Zinan Lin
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2022 10:55 AM
To: youhank@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; Yujian (Ross Yu) <ross.yujian@xxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Rui Yang <Rui.Yang@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; M Montemurro <montemurro.michael@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: 11-22/0652

 

Hi Youhan and Ross,

 

Thanks for your comments and discussions on 11-22/0652!

 

Attached please find the updated document. I summarize the resolutions for the comments you made:

 

  1. The definition ofRPLPSRR,20MHz  is updated as follows:

 

RPLPSRR,20MHz is the received signal power at the receive antenna connector in the nonpunctured 20 MHz subchannel in dBm. It can be the received signal power at the received antenna connector in at least one nonpunctured 20 MHz subchannel within the overlapping bandwidth of the PSRR PPDU and the PSRT PPDU, or the received signal power at the received antenna connector in the nonpunctured 20 MHz subchannels within the overlapping bandwidth of the PSRR PPDU and the PSRT PPDU normalized to a 20 MHz subchannel. The identification of the overlapping bandwidth is implementation dependent.

 

  1. As indicated in 26.10.3.4 (P4242L1, REVme D1.0), UL Spatial Reuse subfield of Trigger frame is defined for each 40 MHz  subchannel for an 80+80MHz or 160 MHz PPDU. The Spatial Reuse subfields of HE-SIG-A field of an HE TB PPDU should follow this definition, i.e.,  Spatial Reuse value is applied to 40MHz subband of the 160MHz band. Therefore, when the PSRR PPDU is 160MHz, to get PSR for 20 MHz subchannel, it needs to normalize the PSR value of the UL Spatial Reuse subfield in the Common Info field of the Trigger frame of the PSRR PPDU to 20 MHz subchannel. The NOTE in the 11-22/0652r3 explained this already.

 

 

Please let me know your comments.

 

Thanks,

Zinan

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