Re: AW: [EFM] PON Optics Telephone Conference, December 5th
Richard,
I does not matter what is proposed to ANSI to define "circuit
services". Only by throwing away the current definitions of "leased
circuit", "switched circuit", "Frame Relay", and "packet" will there be any
major change. "Circuit" emulation is already defined to be supported over
"packet" services as PVC and SVC facilities. Since the term "packet" also
includes "cell" as in ATM, it would also already include "frame" as in
802.3. TDM is a multiplexing method, not a service type.
The key is that a major service provider has already tried this and "lost
their shirts" trying to provide fixed circuit services over a non-TDM
facility. It was not the cost of the equipment that made it economically
unsound, it was the higher cost of the more complex operations
support. Provisioning "circuits" over 802.3 will not change that.
Thank you,
Roy Bynum
At 02:40 PM 12/5/2002 -0800, Richard Brand wrote:
>Thomas:
>I would offer that Roy's note does not answer question 1 and I have sent a
>note
>to Roy to detail. As Kent is aware, there is an ongoing project in the MEF
>right now to specify circuit services (read TDM including T1) over Ethernet
>including 802.3 networks.
>The timing issue could be critical to some implementations and is one of the
>reasons I voted "no" in Kauai. Vipal, do you want to take it on?
>Regards,
>Richard Brand
>
>
>
>Thomas.Murphy@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>
> > Hi Kent,
> >
> > Thanks for your input on this topic. I believe that question 1)
> > has already been addressed by Roy Bynum; there are others who are
> > in a better position to answer this than me.
> >
> > Regarding testing I see two different levels/types of testing.
> > Firstly there is module testing where different response times
> > will not present a problem (the response time is probably
> > one of the parameters that would be determined). Beyond this there
> > is then system/interoperability testing. When testing with
> 'non-intelligent'
> > equipment, the guardband between bursts would be set to the Upper-Bound
> > values agreed upon.
> > By guardband I mean the time delay between the Tx_On signal and the time
> > when the Rx starts examining bit to determine the BER.
> > With an intelligent system, i.e. protocol implementation with negotiated
> > parameters,
> > interoperability is not a problem as the optimal guardband is calculated.
> >
> > The above tests determine if one Tx communicates optically with the
> expected
> > BER
> > with another Rx. Setting the guardband equal to the upper limit determines
> > that the timing requirements of the combined link are met. Direct module
> > testing delivers the individual Rx and Tx times. Hence, I don't see a
> > problem
> > with testing depending on the option choice for the timing parameters.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: Mccammon, Kent G. [mailto:kmccammon@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > Gesendet am: Donnerstag, 5. Dezember 2002 02:45
> > An: Murphy Thomas (COM FO D O); stds-802-3-efm@ieee.org;
> > Vipul_Bhatt@xxxxxxxx; wdiab@xxxxxxxxx
> > Betreff: RE: [EFM] PON Optics Telephone Conference, December 5th
> >
> > Tom,
> > Since I have a conflict with the call tomorrow and I am interested in this
> > decision, here are some questions.
> >
> > 1)Do any of the options for PON timing impact the delivery of services such
> > as toll quality voice, a T1, or multicast video? We had this concern
> > previously and the answer previously was claimed to be only an efficiency
> > hit for loose timing. Are the modeling assumptions to compare efficiency
> > valid for TDM services or is that not a consideration in this debate to
> > date?
> > 2)The negotiation of timing parameters rather than a tight specification
> > have any impact on future interoperability testing? If we ever decide to
> > test interoperability of EPON OLT and ONT, can a lab testing system be
> > reasonably built to test compliance to a specification for OLT/ONT timing
> > for the various options under debate?
> > 3)Do operating temperature swings have an impact on timing options. Is
> their
> > reason to add extra margin or extra negotiation time of timing parameters
> > due to temperature variations? What about cold start in cold temperatures,
> > that was an issue for power levels, does it also impact the electronics of
> > the PMD?
> >
> > Comment: As an advocate of PON technologies I echo my earlier comments
> about
> > striving for common PON PMD to get the volume started in today's
> economy. I
> > am optimistic a compromise can be found in January.
> > Thanks,
> > -Kent
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Thomas.Murphy@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Thomas.Murphy@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 10:12 AM
> > > To: stds-802-3-efm@ieee.org; Vipul_Bhatt@ieee.org; wdiab@cisco.com
> > > Subject: [EFM] PON Optics Telephone Conference, December 5th
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello Again,
> > >
> > > Attacted two possible approaches to this discussion forming
> > > two decision trees. Glen and I worked on these I I did not
> > > have a chance to co-ordinate with him and refine to one
> > > slide. The first slide is mine and I would like to start
> > > here as it allows us to generate values without having to
> > > make decisions. When the values are agreed upon, we can work
> > > towards the decision and perhaps this is simpler with the
> > > values we have.
> > >
> > > If this does not work, we can try the seconf slide, Glen's
> > > approach, which is a more top-down attack.
> > >
> > > Talk to you tomorrow
> > >
> > > Tom
> > >
> > > <<PON Timing Decision Tree.ppt>>
> > >
> > > Hello All,
> > >
> > > Items to Be Covered
> > >
> > > 1) Determine the exact meaning of the terms "Fixed Value"
> > > and 'Upper Bound" in terms
> > > of their use for PMD timing parameters.
> > >
> > > 2) Try assign placeholder values for all of the options
> > >
> > > 3) Are these values fixed or bounded for the different options.
> > >
> > > 4) Other items
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Tom
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >