Re: [STDS-802-3-EPOC] updated technical decisions on web site
Jorge,
The "IEEE spec process" is not causing delays. The Task Force has not reached the part of the process that is (frustratingly) slow - ballot cycles. The problem with delays in the task force can be summed up with one word - people.
There is no reason why the meeting should be a "2-3 day marathon to cram as many things as possible." If the people in the task force wished to make progress, the meeting would consist of 2 or 3 presentations that capture the consensus of the group and some motions to adopt these baselines. It should be expected that the time between task force meetings should be spent constructively by task force members discussing, negotiating and (crucially) agreeing on issues. Anyone who hopes to persuade technical opponents purely by bringing a long presentation to the task force is a fool. At this stage in the process, every presentation that is worth presenting should have a list of supporters that capture the bulk of the task force demographics.
Unfortunately, there is no chain of command in an IEEE process. There is nothing that can be done to force the people involved to reach the agreements necessary. Until and unless the people start working towards the same goals, the process will seem (and be) frustratingly long and pointless. Once the people (and their attitudes) are aligned then the process will move as rapidly as feasible - given the nature of a recognized international standard.
Hugh.
From: Salinger, Jorge [mailto:Jorge_Salinger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2013 5:11 AM
To: STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-3-EPOC] updated technical decisions on web site
Yes, that's very true.
I guess I am just referring to getting the requirements for building the equipment, which for the IEEE standard (in this case at least for comparison) would end up taking about twice as long. I also know that the equipment is built in parallel with the development of the IEEE standard, but that happens with DOCSIS as well (for example, D3.1 SOC development is already in progress).
To that end, I believe that there are things that could be done, at least from my perspective, to streamline the IEEE process. For example, I see the IEEE process as a 2-3 day marathon to cram as many things as possible every 2 months, while I see the DOCSIS process as a continuous stream of work and decisions. Wouldn't it be possible to take the best of both worlds, and get an international standard but with a smoother and faster organizational approach?
Jorge
From: <Jones>, Douglas Jones <Douglas_Jones3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:Douglas_Jones3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Date: Thursday, March 28, 2013 1:35 AM
To: Comcast User <jorge_salinger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:jorge_salinger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>, EPoC Task Force <STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Subject: RE: updated technical decisions on web site
IEEE does not write specifications, rather, it creates international standards.
CableLabs creates specifications for the North American cable industry. For a CableLabs specification to become an internatinoal standard, it would have to go through both the ANSI process (likely SCTE) and then an international standards process. These would easily tack on a few years. With that perspective, the IEEE process looks quick.
dj
From: Salinger, Jorge [mailto:Jorge_Salinger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 11:01 PM
To: STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [STDS-802-3-EPOC] updated technical decisions on web site
Dear EPoC TF colleagues,
I know I was not able to attend the meeting last week to comment on the new timeline, so I recognize that in some way this a Monday quarterbacking comment. But, I can't help but express my frustration with the IEEE Spec process. According to this new schedule the standard will now take almost 3 years! If you just counted the time from the TF to the Sponsor Ballot, as I heard from many that we should count, this is still just shy of 2 years. I believe that things won't happen any faster than the schedule shows, and further believe that they will quite possibly take longer.
By comparison, the DOCSIS 3.1 spec, which I believe to be quite more complex, will take about 1 year from start to finish. In fact, as things look we'll likely have Certified products before the EPoC standard is completed.
I think I have heard all the reasons why the IEEE standards take as long as they do (e.g., open process, better specs, its people and not companies that contribute and vote, etc., etc.). But, this process just does not keep with the pace of our times. There is got to be something that can be fundamentally changed in the IEEE standard process to make it more streamlined.
I would really like to look into what can be done, discuss options, and see if we can find a way to improve on the timeline. And I have some thoughts about this already, some of which It hope we could be applied already, now, for EPoC.
So, if I am not the only one wanting to get the process to improve its velocity, then I would be the first to volunteer to try to do so.
Regards,
Jorge
From: Mark Laubach [mailto:laubach@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 3:21 PM
To: STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:STDS-802-3-EPOC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [STDS-802-3-EPOC] updated technical decisions on web site
Dear IEEE P802.3bn EPoC PHY Task Force participants,
Based on the technical motions approved at this meeting (28 motions), the list of technical decisions on our website has been updated to include each of these motions. Please see:
http://www.ieee802.org/3/bn/public/decisions/decisions.html
In addition, the Task Force timeline was updated as of today. Please see:
http://www.ieee802.org/3/bn/public/tf_timeline_updated_130321.pdf
Yours truly,
Mark Laubach, Chair,
IEEE P802.3bn Task Force
Broadband Communications Group
Broadcom Corporation
1351 Redwood Way
Petaluma, CA, 94954
[broadcom.jpg]
Tel: +1.707.792.9093
Cell: +1.650.996.2219
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