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Re: [8023-POEP] Cabling and wire current capacities



Folks

It was a MAJOR goal of 802.3af to produce a power standard for Ethernet that would skate under the radar of all safety standards on a world-wide basis.

To the best of my knowledge we succeeded and have not been challenged by any of the regulatory bodies or standards with regard to the current standard.

This significantly simplifies the hardware qualification process.

There has been precious little mention of this as either a consideration or a goal in PoE Plus.

Per Steve's discussion below and Mike's steam pipe example in the meeting, there will be plenty of installation opportunity for abuse and failure. This whole area badly needs the focal topic of discussion rather than what will work wrt temperature rise in a "good" installation.

I believe it continues to be our expectation to provide power "over existing cabling" (though this is still up for discussion). That means the initial acceptance and functionality test for the cabling will not prove the suitability for safely adding power.

If we do not squarely face this problem we set ourselves up for both failing on this project but polluting the success of 802.3af.

Geoff


At 07:07 PM 1/31/2005 -0800, Steve Robbins wrote:
Guys,
 
This is just a suggestion, but instead of consulting NASA specs, I would ask UL (Underwriters Lab) or some other group whose opinion will count when it comes to fire safety.  (I spent many years working on the electric power system for the international space station, and don't have a lot of trust in specs written by those "rocket scientists" at NASA.)
 
Here's what makes me a bit nervous about the ampacity discussions I've been reading in these emails:  One of the great things about PoE is that it's the first international power standard, but one of the scary things is that it's the first power standard where most hook-ups will be done by some Joe Blow IT guy instead of a licensed electrician.  There will be people using cables that are not in the best of condition, hanging them over sharp metal edges, hanging them near heat sources, tying them into large bundles, doing bad crimp jobs, hooking them into patch panels with loose screws, etc.  There will be plenty of instances where something is getting a lot hotter than you expect.  All it might take is a few small fires scattered around the planet for big insurance companies to start putting clauses in their policies for corporate customers prohibiting the use of PoE in office buildings.  That would be the end of this technology.
 
I'm sure that SAE or MIL standards will be useful as guidelines.  But when it comes to safefy in electronics, people look for the UL or CE marks on products, not NASA, SAE or even the IEEE.  I don't know if UL or CE have specs for wire ampacity, but I'd feel better if I knew they were part of the discussion.
 
Anyway, that's my two cents.  Sorry if it seems alarmist.  I just think we should be very conservative about ampacity.  More conservative than organizations who might have effective veto power, such as big insurance companies.
 
Steve Robbins