Re: [RE] RESG Interim Meeting - Ottawa, CA - September 30 - October 1, 2004
David-
The reflector traffic shows a big divergence in opinion on what the RESG is
supposed to be doing. Discussing technical proposals without agreement on
objectives simply wastes time.
Let's make sure we all understand and agree on what we are trying to do.
There will be plenty of time for tech talk after that! :-)
--Steve
Steven B. Carlson
President
Chair, ESTA ACN Task Group
http://www.esta.org
Secretary, IEEE 802.3 CSMA/CD Working Group
http://www.ieee802.org/3/
High Speed Design, Inc.
11929 NW Old Quarry Road
Portland, OR 97229
503.626.4206
FAX 503.626.4206
scarlson@hspdesign.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stds-802-3-re@IEEE.ORG
[mailto:owner-stds-802-3-re@IEEE.ORG]On Behalf Of David V James
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2004 8:01 PM
To: STDS-802-3-RE@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: Re: [RE] RESG Interim Meeting - Ottawa, CA - September 30 -
October 1, 2004
Steve,
Relative to the following:
>> I would also suggest that the reflector focus on
>> objectives, rather than specific technical discussions.
I can never figure this out, despite numerous postings
of similar messages. I know of, similarly confused.
Within the 5 criteria, I note two in specific:
6.4 Technical Feasibility
For a project to be authorized, it shall be able to show its
technical feasibility. At a minimum, the proposed project
shall show:
a) Demonstrated system feasibility.
b) Proven technology, reasonable testing.
c) Confidence in reliability.
6.5 Economic Feasibility
For a project to be authorized, it shall be able to
show economic feasibility (so far as can reasonably be
estimated), for its intended applications. At a minimum,
the proposed project shall show:
a) Known cost factors, reliable data.
b) Reasonable cost for performance.
c) Consideration of installation costs.
I fail to understand how these can be accomplished without
at least a straw-man proposal, which implies specific
technical discussions.
What am I missing?
DVJ
David V. James
3180 South Ct
Palo Alto, CA 94306
Home: +1.650.494.0926
+1.650.856.9801
Cell: +1.650.954.6906
Fax: +1.360.242.5508
Base: dvj@alum.mit.edu
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-stds-802-3-re@IEEE.ORG
>> [mailto:owner-stds-802-3-re@IEEE.ORG]On Behalf Of Steve Carlson
>> Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2004 4:41 PM
>> To: STDS-802-3-RE@listserv.ieee.org
>> Subject: [RE] RESG Interim Meeting - Ottawa, CA - September 30 - October
>> 1, 2004
>>
>>
>> Colleagues,
>>
>> Bob Grow, Chair of 802.3, has asked me to Chair the Residential Ethernet
>> Study Group meeting at the Ottawa Interim. For those of you who
>> don't know
>> me, I serve as the Secretary of the 802.3 Working Group, and was
>> the Chair
>> of P802.3af, popularly known as the "Power over Ethernet" Task
>> Force. I have
>> also done standards work in other SDO's, most notably the Entertainment
>> Services and Technology Association, which is the ANSI E1 secretariat for
>> entertainment technology standards for professional use. My role is to
>> facilitate the operation of the SG and to insure that IEEE policies are
>> followed.
>>
>> If you are new to 802.3, please visit
>> http://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/3/index.html and read up on how we do
>> business:
>>
>> -Operating Rules of IEEE Project 802 Working Group 802.3, CSMA/CD LANs.
>>
>> -Requirements for Voting on IEEE 802.3 Drafts.
>>
>> -Typical Working Group 802.3 meetings during IEEE 802 Plenary Week.
>>
>> -Requesting an interpretation of the Standard.
>>
>> -IEEE 802.3 Patent policy.
>>
>> -Discussion of Cost in Working Group 802.3.
>>
>> You should also visit http://standards.ieee.org/, the home page
>> of the IEEE
>> Standards Association, to get an overall view of how standards
>> work is done
>> within the IEEE. Reading up of this will hopefully save some
>> confusion and
>> questions as the group moves along.
>>
>> The RESG is not chartered with producing a standard. That is the job of a
>> Task Force. The Study Group was formed to study the problem
>> presented at the
>> Call for Interest. The work of the SG may result in the formation of an
>> 802.3 Task Force. The life of a Study Group is generally six
>> months. At that
>> time it will either request the creation of a Task Force by submitting
>> objectives, the PAR and 5 Criteria to the 802.3 Working Group. If the SG
>> decides that there is no project that falls under 802.3, the SG is
>> disbanded.
>>
>> I am pleased at the volume of traffic on the RESG reflector. It is clear
>> that we have a diverse group with equally diverse opinions!
>> I would like to remind everyone of the IEEE reflector policy:
>>
>> "IEEE 802.3 reflectors shall only be used for official business
>> relating to
>> IEEE 802.3 and its sub-groups. Technical discussions/questions,
>> comments on
>> presentations and documents, meeting announcements, etc., are acceptable
>> uses of a reflector. Communications are expected to be respectful,
>> dignified, and germane.
>>
>> IEEE 802.3 reflectors are not 'free speech' forums. Subscriptions are
>> granted to further the purposes of IEEE 802.3 and may be revoked for
>> inappropriate communications. These include, but are not limited to:
>> recruiting, advertising, soliciting, spamming, flaming, whining, whinging
>> and disparaging individuals or companies.
>>
>> IEEE 802.3 operates in an open manner. To that end, no material
>> submitted to
>> IEEE 802.3, or any of its sub-groups, will be accepted or
>> considered if it
>> contains any statement that places any burden on the recipient(s) with
>> respect to confidentiality or copyright. Any communication, including
>> electronic mail, containing language with such restrictive
>> wording will not
>> be accepted or considered.
>>
>> Note - this policy regarding confidentiality and copyrights does
>> not apply
>> to IEEE copyrighted materials, such as draft standards.
>>
>> In addition, IEEE 802.3 reflectors operate under the IEEE Acceptable Use
>> Practices.
>>
>> The Chair of the group to which a reflector is dedicated shall
>> enforce these
>> policies."
>>
>> A Study Group creates a set of objectives that define the scope
>> of the work
>> to be done. I have seen some discussion on the reflector about the PAR
>> (Program Authorization Request) and the 5 Criteria. These are
>> requirements
>> of the IEEE to move a project forward and create as Task Force. We will
>> discuss this in some detail at the Ottawa meeting, but our
>> primary focus for
>> this meeting is the creation of objectives which set the project's scope.
>> Without objectives, there is no project. The objectives tell us
>> the problem
>> that we are trying to solve within the context of 802.3.
>>
>> To that end, I would like presentations to speak to objectives,
>> rather than
>> to a particular technical solution. I predict a lively and interesting
>> debate. I would also suggest that the reflector focus on
>> objectives, rather
>> than specific technical discussions.
>>
>> Requesting Presentation Time
>>
>> Presenters shall request time by 5PM Pacific time on Monday,
>> September 20,
>> 2004.
>> Requests shall be submitted to the Chair.
>> The presenter shall provide the following information:
>>
>> Name of presenter
>> Title of presentation
>> Length of time requested(30 minutes maximum, unless special arrangements
>> have been made with the Chair. This should include time for questions and
>> answers)
>>
>> If the "requesting presentation time" deadline is missed, time will be
>> provided on a best-effort basis following the completion of the regular
>> agenda (or as deemed appropriate by the chair).
>>
>> Presentation Submission
>>
>> It is highly recommended a PDF, soft-copy version of the presentation be
>> emailed to the Chair by Wednesday, September 22, 2004.
>>
>> A PDF, soft-copy version of the presentation shall be emailed to
>> the Chair
>> by Sunday preceding the meeting.
>> If the presentation submission deadlines are missed, the
>> presenter will be
>> allowed to present only if electronic copies or hard copies of the
>> presentation are made available to the group at the beginning of
>> the meeting
>> and the group approves the addition of the presentation to the agenda.
>>
>> Presentations shall be available to the group a minimum of 24
>> hours before a
>> motion can be made on any material contained within the presentation.
>>
>> Presentation Style Guidelines
>>
>> Failure to meet guidelines may result in a loss of requested presentation
>> time.
>> Presentations must be submitted in PDF format. Neither the chair nor the
>> Web Master will convert presentations to PDF format.
>> Presentations not in
>> PDF format will be returned.
>> Avoid graphic intensive backgrounds or other decorative graphics.
>> No animations, audio clips, video clips, etc.
>> Presentation should be less then 1.4 MB.
>> No marketing pitches, product pitches or corporate pitches.
>> No pricing, costs, ASPs, etc. are permitted. Relative costs,
>> ASPs, etc. are
>> permitted (i.e. option 1 is 3x the cost of option 2).
>> No company copyright or confidentiality statements. All
>> presentations are
>> posted to a publicly available web site. If the presentation is
>> not ready
>> for public disclosure, then it should not presented.
>> To support the web site search tool used by the IEEE P802.3 web site the
>> 'Document Information' fields of the PDF file must be completed
>> as follows:
>>
>> Title :- Title of presentation
>> Subject :- IEEE 802.3 10GBASE-T Study Group
>> Author :- Name(s) of author(s)
>> Document Information Fields
>> The 'Document Information' fields in a PDF file can be entered
>> as follows:
>>
>> Adobe Acrobat: Either use the menu options: 'File' -> 'Document Info' ->
>> 'General' or the shortcut CTRL-D.
>> Adobe PDFWriter: When the 'Save PDF File As' dialog appears hit the 'Edit
>> Document Info.' button, enter the information, and then hit the
>> 'OK' button.
>>
>> Please contact me if you have any questions. I look forward to seeing you
>> all in Ottawa.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> Steven B. Carlson
>> President
>> Chair, ESTA ACN Task Group
>> http://www.esta.org
>> Secretary, IEEE 802.3 CSMA/CD Working Group
>> http://www.ieee802.org/3/
>> Chair, IEEE 802.3 RESG
>> High Speed Design, Inc.
>> 11929 NW Old Quarry Road
>> Portland, OR 97229
>> 503.626.4206
>> FAX 503.626.4206
>> scarlson@hspdesign.com